The best thing about Seconds Out is....

[N_Singh]

Naturally there are songs that are far more suited for PG--Epping Forest and Especially the Knife.

But what separates the adults from the children in music are the ballads-and the timbre, phrasing and the emotional nuance required to pull them off--not just the range. I mean Billie Holiday had a tiny voice with limited range but nobody could phrase like her!

PC kicks PG up and form the park on ballads--even when only a drummer the Band looked to him to sing the quiet parts.

Ballads have always been PGs weakness -even on Don't Give Up, it's Kate Bush who delivers the goods

[DarthVander]

As others have said before at least back in the 70s Phil was a much better live singer than Peter. PG often struggled live, losing his voice and sounding hoarse, whereas Phil was very consistent and very good at hitting all the notes. Both of them are among my favourite singers, and both were very expressive with distinctive voices (though Peter's timbre is probably even more unique).

PG's voice has definitely matured and held up much better over the years.

I've always had the impression that Collins was going through a major melt-down during the '80 tour around Sheffield/Lyceum shows. His vocals are very raw

I've always wondered what happened with his voice there. Sounded very shouty (and not in a good way) and struggled with songs he sang effortlessly on the preceding tours. This is also the time he transitioned from his softer style of singing to his more aggressive, raspy 80s approach (which I also enjoy a lot). Always wondered if this change was intentional or if something happened to his voice which forced him to change his approach.

[JeffCarney]

I too find Collins attempt at stand up comedy amateurish at best and even embarrassing. Just my opinion.

FTR, I really have no issues with this aspect of Phil until the s/t era.

That doesn't mean I think it was the best idea in the world or that the between song banter has aged all that well, but I certainly wouldn't think of it as "embarrassing." It just attempted to follow in a tradition of the band, really. By the time Genesis were MTV stars, it was officially cringeworthy, IMO. Hardly a big deal before that and sometimes even mildly amusing.

[Soc Prof]

The best part for me is that Tony's use of the ARP synth on "Supper's Ready" elevated the song to a level beyond that of the studio version. I also love Steve's pick scrape in the middle of "And he's crying (scrape) with a loud voice..."

The worst part for me is not enough songs from Wind and Wuthering.

[Progatron]

The best part for me is that Tony's use of the ARP synth on "Supper's Ready" elevated the song to a level beyond that of the studio version. I also love Steve's pick scrape in the middle of "And he's crying (scrape) with a loud voice..."

The worst part for me is not enough songs from Wind and Wuthering.

Yes, by the time '77 rolled around, they had really mastered "Supper's Ready" live (not to knock the earlier PG performances of it, those were terrific too). Some of those earlier tracks sounded pretty amazing with the double drumming and Rutherford's pedals. Banks, Rutherford and Hackett had all improved immensely as live players in those several years of touring. Agreed about the lack of W&W tracks, only "Afterglow"?! I recall reading that they didn't feel "Eleventh Earl" was a 100% successful live track (I disagree).

As for Phil's stage banter, the only time it ever bugged me really was his "put your hands in the hair and go 'OOOOOOOOOOOO.....'" intro to "Home By The Sea".

[GuitarGeek]

Some of those earlier tracks sounded pretty amazing with the double drumming and Rutherford's pedals. .

You know Rutherford had been playing bass pedals since 1970, right? He started playing them because they were experimenting with carrying on as a quartet, with Mike playing bass pedals and guitar full time and Tony playing a lot of the solos on a Hohner Pianet fed through a fuzztone.

[GuitarGeek]

And speaking of bass pedals, if you watch Genesis In Concert, there's several shots where you can see that Steve had a set of bass pedals on his pedalboard too. Anyone know which songs he played bass pedals on?

[Trane]

^That's the other 'straw man' response- the old 'you don't have a sense of humour'/'you don't like fun' argument. Personally I thought it was cringeworthy and went on and on.

Ya know, even The Gabe's stories were somewhat cringworthy, AFAIAC.

And TBH, I find that The Musical Box re-enacting them quite cringeworthy... I mean, does it have to go THAT far, in the duplication?? I mean, I felt annoyed , because it kind of ruins the momentum of their TMB concerts... I mean Genesis needed the considerable time in between songs, TMB, a lot less, given the technology

The worst part for me is not enough songs from Wind and Wuthering.

Mmmmhh!!!... and when they did, they chose that awful YOSW track

[LeFrog]

Mmmmhh!!!... and when they did, they chose that awful YOSW track

Not an honest statement I think! Eleventh Earl Of Mar, One For The Vine and the whole Unquiet Slumbers/In That Quiet Earth/Afterglow medley were played throughout the whole of the 1977 tour.
All In A Mouse's Night and YOSW were played at the beginning of the tour, later replaced by Inside And Out (though not technically a Wind track)

[Progatron]

You know Rutherford had been playing bass pedals since 1970, right? He started playing them because they were experimenting with carrying on as a quartet, with Mike playing bass pedals and guitar full time and Tony playing a lot of the solos on a Hohner Pianet fed through a fuzztone.

Yes, I know all about it. I mentioned them in the context of the double-drumming, which gave mid-70s Genesis a particularly strong live feel compared to the early 70s.

Mmmmhh!!!... and when they did, they chose that awful YOSW track

It was "Afterglow".

[Rick Robson]

Naturally there are songs that are far more suited for PG--Epping Forest and Especially the Knife.

Couldn't say it better, but the best thing about Soconds Out is not having included Epping Forest and The Knife as an encore tracks, urrghhh...

What I always loved about Second Out is the different touch Phil gave to the tracks of the Gabriel era, not better nor worst, just original. Perhaps that is the reason it's the only Genesis álbum I still listen to occasionally, yeah I have to agree that Gabriel's era was not my cup of tea, for the record.

[N_Singh]

Conversely speaking, "11th Earl" would have been right in PGs wheelhouse .

I find it maddening that not much of W and W is not on this

[JJ88]

^I think it was simply down to the fact that W&W came out not long before- they may have felt it would have been a 'rip off' to include too much from an album the fanbase had only just bought.

What can be questioned is the reluctance to release the W&W live tracks on their later archival releases. I think that was a big oversight.

'Eleventh Earl Of Mar' survived into the next year's set.

[JJ88]

As for Phil's stage banter, the only time it ever bugged me really was his "put your hands in the hair and go 'OOOOOOOOOOOO.....'" intro to "Home By The Sea".

Yeah, that one goes on and on, and that silly 'other world' thing.

[pb2015]

I recall reading that they didn't feel "Eleventh Earl" was a 100% successful live track (I disagree).

I thought it was the opposite. Banks said it was better live with Chester on drums than in the studio.

[bob_32_116]

I'm going to disagree. Compare Collin's and Gabriel's solo output and Gabriel is miles ahead. I admit Phil is technically a better singer but Gabriel is a more substantial musician.

I agree with this. I also think that PG's singing was perfectly suited to the early Genesis material - which figures, because he had a big hand on most of the lyrics.

There is nothing wrong with Phil's voice - indeed, I would say it's well suited to later Genesis, especially the slower songs (sometimes incorrectly referred to as "ballads"). What Peter brought to the mix was a true sense of drama. When he does "The Lamia", he is not just singing the lyrics, he is pleading for your attention as he thrusts upon you this heart-wrenching story of temptation and the dreadful results of yielding to it. Same applies to songs like Musical Box, Hogweed and Fountain of Salmacis.

[syncopatico]

(someone in the audience yells out "Do In The bloody CAGE!!!"
Phil: We'll do In The Bloody Cage, in a just a bloody minute!

One of my favorite Phil reacts-to-the-crowd bits is during one of his stories from the (well-known) Savoy Theatre NYC show from Nov. 81.
During his (quite long-winded ) intro/story to Misunderstanding, people in the audience start guessing which song it will be/shouting out requests, to which of one of them Phil replies (in a very broadly-exaggerated accent): "Can-Utility?!? That's a long shot!"

[Progatron]

One of my favorite Phil reacts-to-the-crowd bits is during one of his stories from the (well-known) Savoy Theatre NYC show from Nov. 81.
During his (quite long-winded ) intro/story to Misunderstanding, people in the audience start guessing which song it will be/shouting out requests, to which of one of them Phil replies (in a very broadly-exaggerated accent): "Can-Utility?!? That's a long shot!"

LOL! Check out his reaction to the booing crowd in Leiden '81.

[Vonta Jitty]

The drums sound absolutely amazing on Seconds Out. Whether its Bruford, Thompson or Collins, you know exactly who is playing at any point.
Thompson's and Collins' solo between Cinema show and Dance was is so effective and very entertaining.
Great vocal sound too

[Michael_2]

Yeah, that one goes on and on, and that silly 'other world' thing.

If I remember rightly all that was to cover the fact that they brought the lighting rig down low over the band - mind you, I don't recall any such fuss when they put it back up!

I never really minded Phil's 'inter-song banter.' I always found the hamming it up and 'cheeky chappy' humour contrasted very markedly with the music - maybe that was the point.

As for the OP and 'Seconds Out' - I love it, I think this was the album when I finally 'got' Genesis. My sister flogged it to death in an attempt to get me to open up to it. I holds a special place in my heart, and always will. And on that note, I am now going to play it.

[rickmoraz]

What times those were for live recordings:

I remember buying during the same spree (more or less October 77): Moonflower, Encore (TD) and Seconds Out.

Ed

[miamiscot]

I always preferred Genesis Live.

[Progatron]

I always preferred Genesis Live.

They're quite different, despite only being four years apart. I really think the band grew by leaps and bounds in that period, but I love the early period too. There was a certain raw power to stuff like "Hogweed" and "Musical Box" back in '73.

[Facelift]

What's wrong with RA&B??

I find it clunky and unappealing as well (the tune in general, not just the Seconds Out performance) - except for the instrumental break.

It's far from the only fault with Seconds Out, though - that one got reworked in the studio to the point where it doesn't sound like a live album at all, just tame, over-polished versions of the real things. There's so many good boots from this period, I don't know why people ever listen to Seconds Out. And if you don't like Phil's stage patter (which I don't either), it's pretty easy to just edit it out if you're ripping to a hard drive. Heck, responsible editing of spoken word nonsense totally transformed Joe's Garage from something I almost never listened to into one of my favorite post-original MOI FZ albums.

[Trane]

It's far from the only fault with Seconds Out, though - that one got reworked in the studio to the point where it doesn't sound like a live album at all, just tame, over-polished versions of the real things.

Yeah, you can actually hear some of these studio edits... But we'rte nowhere close to JP's Unleashed In The Studios....

I like RA&B, precisely because it's one of those mini-opera (multi-characters singing) in the line of Harrold the Barrel,GTB Friday, Epping Forest, etc... and it's humorous too... Check out their videoclip for the madness....
And later on they'll do all In A Mouse's Night,which I find also good, unlike what seems a majority here