GOD, I really hate jazz!!!

[rottersclub]

Many contemporary players are doing just this, eschewing the standard "head-solos-head" format for an approach that integrates the solos into the overall texture of the music, wherein solos materialize (and de-materialize) almost imperceptibly from within the arrangement, sometimes to the effect that its difficult to tell the difference. Solos are present but they're not necessarily foregrounded ("look at me", as you put it) to the point where the other players are relegated to the status of mere "accompaniment"; instead they maintain their own integrity both independently of, and in dialog with, the soloist.

Can you recommend some names that are doing this?

[polmico]

Can you recommend some names that are doing this?

I was thinking the same thing.

[fictionmusic]

Many contemporary players are doing just this, eschewing the standard "head-solos-head" format for an approach that integrates the solos into the overall texture of the music, wherein solos materialize (and de-materialize) almost imperceptibly from within the arrangement, sometimes to the effect that its difficult to tell the difference. Solos are present but they're not necessarily foregrounded ("look at me", as you put it) to the point where the other players are relegated to the status of mere "accompaniment"; instead they maintain their own integrity both independently of, and in dialog with, the soloist.

As always Mo, a well reasoned and eloquent post.

[sonic]

I thought endless noodling was what proggers live for.

[Shadow]

I thought endless noodling was what proggers live for.

Shitty micro brews

[Vic2012]

As an ex-wedding band player, I feel ya.

But if you want to listen to some Brazilian stuff that's rawer and not what you're talking about try Ebgerto Gismonti (especially in the '70s up to early '80s) and Hermeto Pascoal. There's plenty of Brazilian jazz that isn't samba or bossa nova, which is, admittedly, what most folks think of because of what Stan Getz and other west coast guys did in the 1960s to popularize it. Personally, barring Paul Desmond with Jim Hall, and some Gerry Mulligan stuff, I was not a west coast fan; even in the fusion stuff, with some exceptions, the east coast always seemed to have more edge, more grit. At least to my ears.

I think I mentioned earlier that I saw a Cuban trumpet player named Arturo Sandoval a few years ago. He was all over the place, it wasn't just Cuban jazz. But anyway, at the same show there was a Brasilian artist who played the harp. I don't remember his first name but his surname is Pereira. He had an assortment of harps up on stage. Very impressive. Never heard any jazz played on harp before. All this great, live jazz for 5 bucks. And sadly, that venue stopped the concert series.

[Planechant]

Can you recommend some names that are doing this?

Mike Formanek (best record of 2012, exquisite, beautiful), Drew Gress, Tim Berne (Snakeoil), Craig Taborn.

[mogrooves]

Mike Formanek (best record of 2012, exquisite, beautiful), Drew Gress, Tim Berne (Snakeoil), Craig Taborn.

Yes, and Dave Douglas, David Binney, Steve Lehman, Tyshawn Sorey, Wayne Escoffery, Gerry Hemmingway, Ben Allison, Andy Laster, Bobby Previte, Darcy James Argue, Michael Attias, Jason Mears, Aram Shelton, and on and on.....

In NYC if a player is only about "look at me" he's fucked. Just being able to blow on blues and rhythm changes isn't enough. (There are, of course, exceptions; Eric Alexander and his guys immediately spring to mind). Today's players--all of 'em--can play the horn up, down, and sidways. They know every hip lick, synthetic scale, and "jiu jitsu" change in the book, and then some, and can blow it standing on their heads.

Consequently, it ain't enough. What else ya got?

When it's a given that you can play, you need more; you need a conception, one that privileges astute compositional and arranging skills. The contemporary cats are largely about this, as I said earlier, integrating solos into the larger compositional/arranging mix instead of merely coming up with "tunes" to hang a series of solos on. Solos are there, but they aren't necessarily the point, but rather are simply one constituent element in the larger totality.

[mogrooves]

Another one of my least favourite jazz guys these days is Dave Holland. He has great, great players, but the format of the music is so predictable that I've had enough after 2 numbers.

Dave's a monster, but I find I don't reach for his albums as much as I used to, the last couple in particular. But, 40 years later, Conference of The Birds still makes it for me.

[fictionmusic]

David Binney's album Greylen Epicenter is awesome and one of my favorites. His is a highly compositional and idiosyncratic jazz. Darcy James Argue's big band outing a few years ago was pretty cool and I saw the band in Ottawa kicking up a strorm. I prefer his arrangments to his compositions though (although it is hard to know where one starts and the other ends).


Jason Mears' Empty Cage Quartet is cool as is Wayne Escoffery, but I haven't heard any of the others that you mention Mo. Time to do some checking out. Of course living in stodgy Ottawa (or even worse, the red-neck farming towns surrounding) I am not really up on the NYC scene at all.

[rottersclub]

I discovered David Binney a few years ago (South) and he blew it up for me. The next couple of albums were also great (Balance, Welcome to Life), but when he went over to Chris-Cross, the focus changed to more of a live in the studio concept.

I also picked up the DJA Secret Society CD and it has it's moments as well.

Thanks for the other recommendations.

One possible suggestion I may offer is Christian Scott. He's doing some interesting things these days.

[jkelman]

Mike Formanek (best record of 2012, exquisite, beautiful), Drew Gress, Tim Berne (Snakeoil), Craig Taborn.

Let me add a few that are a little less left of center (and that's not to say I don't love 'em - Tim's record was on my best of 2012 list, Craig's 2011 and Drew's last as a leader on whatever year that was. Mike came very close.

But I think vibraphonist Joe Locke, especially with the Locke/Keezer Group that released Signing last year, is one of the greats. Eminently accessible and has all the chops he needs, but is as lyrical as all get out and his bands are always collaborative/collective situations. Same with the Storms/Noctunes Trio with Locke, pianist Keezer and saxophonist Tim Garland, and Lighthouse Trio with Tim, pianist Gwilym Simcock and drummer Asaf Sirkis.

I also thing John Abercrombie's work is always the farthest thing from "look at me," yet you cannot help but look at him anyway; a guitarist who never seems to repeat himself when he plays.

There are plenty more, but since I'm in a Locke & Abercrombie mood today, well, ther you have it.

[mogrooves]

when he went over to Chris-Cross, the focus changed to more of a live in the studio concept.

That's the nature of Criss-Cross, but don't let it deter you from trumpeter Alex Sipiagin's Destinations Unknown from last year, a six-piece date with Binney, Taborn, and Chris Potter. Real nice.....

[fictionmusic]

this thread has evolved nicely

[Reid]

When it's a given that you can play, you need more; you need a conception, one that privileges astute compositional and arranging skills. The contemporary cats are largely about this, as I said earlier, integrating solos into the larger compositional/arranging mix instead of merely coming up with "tunes" to hang a series of solos on. Solos are there, but they aren't necessarily the point, but rather are simply one constituent element in the larger totality.

That's why I listen to some of the larger ensembles. John Hollenbeck is writing great stuff. His albums Shut Up And Dance, and Joys And Desires feature some of the best stuff I've heard in years.

[wideopenears]

Maria Schneider's big ensemble stuff is pretty great, IMO. And I love the DJA Secret Society. NPR used to have a vid of their Jazz Fest performance up on their site....not sure if it's still there.

[rottersclub]

this thread has evolved nicely

Yes. Hopefully that awful OP is long gone.

[rottersclub]

That's why I listen to some of the larger ensembles. John Hollenbeck is writing great stuff. His albums Shut Up And Dance, and Joys And Desires feature some of the best stuff I've heard in years.

+ Eternal Interlude.

[Jerjo]

Just ordered Tim Berne and Mike Formanek. Thanks for the recs.

[polmico]

Just ordered Tim Berne and Mike Formanek. Thanks for the recs.

I put both on my wishlist.

[wideopenears]

http://www.npr.org/event/music/15800...port-jazz-2012

[Planechant]

Maria Schneider's big ensemble stuff is pretty great, IMO. And I love the DJA Secret Society. NPR used to have a vid of their Jazz Fest performance up on their site....not sure if it's still there.

Also, Django Bates big band:

http://www.rdio.com/artist/Django_Ba...bum/Like_Life/

Free stream

[fictionmusic]

Django Bates big band is cool. There is a fairly large band from Toronto I like. They're called Random Access Large Ensemble with the leader Barry Romberg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ogXGDq_MI

[simon moon]

Many contemporary players are doing just this, eschewing the standard "head-solos-head" format for an approach that integrates the solos into the overall texture of the music, wherein solos materialize (and de-materialize) almost imperceptibly from within the arrangement, sometimes to the effect that its difficult to tell the difference. Solos are present but they're not necessarily foregrounded ("look at me", as you put it) to the point where the other players are relegated to the status of mere "accompaniment"; instead they maintain their own integrity both independently of, and in dialog with, the soloist.

I believe a high percentage of the ECM releases from the 70's and 80's fit this description. To me, it seems like the overwhelming philosophy among so many of the ECM artists was all about interplay and communication between all the musicians. There were definite moments where you could say that there was a solo happening, but the rest of the musicians were not just accompaniment for the soloist. As you say, they "maintained their own integrity both independently of, and in dialog with, the soloist".

Eberhard Weber, Ralph Towner and Azimuth, Art Lande and Rubisa Patrol, Ralph Tower - Old Friends/New Friends, Solstice, Barre Philips. Jan Garberek, just to name a few that fit your description. There are plenty more. Oregon also fit this description.

[mozo-pg]

Been spinning John Albercrombie's Timeless. What a fine piece of work.