24-Track Masters on Blu-ray?

[rcarlberg]

The thread on Led Zeppelin reissues, with slightly different mixes (off the master tapes) included as bonus tracks, got me to thinking. If somebody marketed an unmixed multi-track studio master, with say 24 or 36 tracks, on some high capacity format like Blu-ray, would you be interested?

i know some "studio sessions" boxes have come close to this concept (Smile, Pet Sounds) but to my knowledge there is not a whole album released in all its component parts.

[trurl]

I would love that. To a limited extent that sort of thing is out there in the form of separated surround tracks and Rockband stems, but not down to the track level. OTOH, as a band member and producer I'd be sort of horrified to put that level of control in the hands of normal people

[Steve F.]

OTOH, as a band member and producer I'd be sort of horrified to put that level of control in the hands of normal people

This.

[Plasmatopia]

I couldn't see myself getting more than one or two of my favorite albums or maybe ones that I specifically thought needed help. But since I'm a complete amateur, I'm pretty sure I'd find at this point in time I couldn't do any better than the experts...or even close.

[Rarebird]

It could be interesting, though I wonder how would one make this work. I mean, you need mixing-equipment and perhaps something to save the endresult. Or should everything be done on a computer? In a way I prefer to have real sliders and everything else, that is on a mixer.
I've studied sound-engineering, but I have to admit, mixing my music isn't really my favorite thing to do.

[Plasmatopia]

Having tried to mix a demo for my band recently, I've found it's only enjoyable to a point. (the point where I realize I suck!)

[trurl]

The appeal would probably be less in trying to remix stuff yourself and more in isolating tracks and hearing what was really going on. Of course, you know what they say about knowing how sausage is made.

[rcarlberg]

Of course, you know what they say about knowing how sausage is made.

I suspect this is what Steve's first thought was. Some of us geeks would love to see sausage made though.

I saw a thing recently -- maybe on YouTube -- where George Martin was sitting in a studio with Brian Wilson, going through the mix of God Only Knows. It was fascinating hearing all the different parts in isolation. After a few minutes Brian turned to George and said, "You've created a better mix than my master."

[Steve F.]

^ ^ ^

George Martin isn't 'normal people'.

[Gruno]

Having multi-tracks released would be great. Although, the downside to the artist is much greater. Now, you will have tons of remixes and selected parts being sampled into other works. The greed of some will lead to mass distribution and some will claim they have uncovered a lost track/mix, etc.

[Dave (in MA)]

Back around the time of his 2nd or 3rd album, I recall Peter Gabriel talking about how someday music will be able to be played back on equipment that will allow the listener to raise or lower the levels of the individual instrument tracks.

[Dave (in MA)]

The appeal would probably be less in trying to remix stuff yourself and more in isolating tracks and hearing what was really going on. Of course, you know what they say about knowing how sausage is made.

If you could eliminate the PPFFFFT sounds that people tried to pass off as "drums" in the 80s/90s, that would be an improvement.

[jkelman]

I would love that. To a limited extent that sort of thing is out there in the form of separated surround tracks and Rockband stems, but not down to the track level. OTOH, as a band member and producer I'd be sort of horrified to put that level of control in the hands of normal people

Yeah...if piracy is already an issue, imagine what would happen when you started seeing "John Doe's remix of Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"!

OTOH, that said, the idea of being able to hear the individual components really appeals to me, especially since I spent a lot of time in studios during the late '80s through the mid '90s, so know that there is often so much more laid down to tape (or disk) than actually makes it onto a finished record....even beyond stuff that's mixed in the weeds. The "We'll Keep That One Nick" disc of the Crimson LTIA box provided a window into the process. It would be exciting to hear what choices were made to include or exclude...

...but the opportunities for abuse? The horror....the horror!!

[rcarlberg]

If you could eliminate the PPFFFFT sounds that people tried to pass off as "drums" in the 80s/90s, that would be an improvement.

Good point.

If this sort of thing became commonplace, there would have to be a paradigm shift among musicians. People would be second guessing instrument choices, rearranging songs, mashing together unrelated songs, putting in their own lyrics... Musicians would no longer be in control. It would mean the democratization of recorded music.

Just think. A fairly large percentage of music recorded in the past 50 years was recorded multi-track, and could potentially be open to this market.

[Steve F.]

Musicians would no longer be in control. It would mean the democratization of recorded music.

The hell with the decisions those artists make; commodities deserve democratization.

[Plasmatopia]

I understand that point and largely agree with it.

On the other hand, in a more theoretical sense and/or just out of curiosity it would be interesting to see what would happen if some artists decided they'd like to release something into the wild. What sort of mixes would rise to the top? What sort of mixes would result from "democratization" over time? Would we get the cream of the crop and mixes that are improvements over the originals or would the results be lowest common denominator type stuff? I guess this would only make sense if democratization meant there was some sort of voting or weeding out process.

I'd be more interested in what other people could do with a mix than what I could do. I also wouldn't assume , if an artist were to release this sort of thing, that they'd include all the alternate takes. I'd consider it more likely they'd clean things up a bit first, but maybe that's just what I would do.

[rcarlberg]

Well the point could be made, music is increasingly a commodity instead of an art form.

[trurl]

Well the point could be made, music is increasingly a commodity instead of an art form.

Oh it is. "Hi Mr. Clear Channel, I have a truck load of Muzik for you! Where do I put it?"

I suspect if hore multi-tracks were available the interesting things that would arise would be more mashups and probably very niche mixes that most people would hate- making 70s albums sound like 80s albums and that sort of thing. That's what I'd do And people adding their own crappy playing to classic albums. Look, I replaced all Keith Emerson's playing with my own!!

[Steve F.]

Well the point could be made, music is increasingly a commodity instead of an art form.

Yes. You could make that point. I might even agree with that point.

Doesn't mean everyone has to buy into it and get on board.

I mean, why don't you ask this question on the 'tattood boy band and aerobicized girly singers' message board? They're already the commodities you are speaking of. But you don't like that stuff, so you are posting here. I bet you don't like that stuff because what you like isn't strictly a commodity.

You can't have it both ways.

[rcarlberg]

I bet you don't like that stuff because what you like isn't strictly a commodity.

You can't have it both ways.

True dat. But having the CAPABILITY of remixing multiple tracks isn't the same as the OBLIGATION to do so.

[rcarlberg]

Personally, I'd love to be able to take a perfect album like "Western Culture" and tear it apart, examine all the pieces, and play with the pieces like a big puzzle.

Some other albums are nearly perfect and it'd be neat to be able to take out the '80s drum sounds or the out-of-tune violin or the crap vocals and make it more nearly perfect (in my ears).

There's a small cottage industry of people who have assembled their own versions of "Smile," especially since most of the completed raw tracks have been released. That's an even more extreme case than what I'm talking about, since it consists of hundreds of fragments with no clear roadmap to how it should go together. I'm just asking for an album, completed and polished to the artist's satisfaction, to be released not in stereo, not in 5.1 surround sound, but in 24-track digital audio files suitable for any home DAW.

The technology exists today.

[Gruno]

I'm just asking for an album, completed and polished to the artist's satisfaction, to be released not in stereo, not in 5.1 surround sound, but in 24-track digital audio files suitable for any home DAW.

Yeah, you're just asking.

The technology exists today.

And…?

I've been very fortunate to have access to some awesome multi-tracks from a couple of my favorite bands. Yes, I'm talking 24-tracks. I know for a fact these musicians would not consider and are not interested in releasing their multi's for the reasons already explained in this thread.

Looks like you'll have to settle for what you can find or get some friends in the music industry who can help you out.

Good luck with your quest!

[rcarlberg]

In a way I suspect this development is inevitable. In the same way bloggers and Facebook have joined in with the voices of professional journalists when reporting the news, I expect musical democratization will enhance -- not REPLACE but exist in parallel with -- professional musicians.