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Thread: Science Solves Hipster Paradox

  1. #26
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012
    I know this old, redneck, Alabaman woman who wears one all the time.
    Lo siento.

    I know next to nothing about hats. Every time I hear one referred to by name, I have to look it up to see what it might look like. Homburg? Trilby? Pork Pie? I don't have a clue. I rarely wear a hat. But I will wear a furry or wooly one in winter if it is way too cold out, or a panama in summer to keep my head from turning red. Today it was only freezing. I haven't even stooped to wearing shoes yet, much less got out a hat.

    "Your trouser cuffs are dirty
    And your shoes are laced up wrong
    You'd better take off your homburg
    'cause your overcoat is too long" - Keith Reid
    We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
    It won't be visible through the air
    And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973

  2. #27
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I agree hipster is pretty much a made up concept that doesn't really exist. You might as well refer to everyone who wore a flannel shirt during the time when Grunge was big a hipster. It's just what some people are calling some people who are younger than them these days.

    I live in a town that the NY Times referred to as Hipsturbia a year or two ago, and all it is is that some younger families are moving here from Brooklyn and Inwood and such.

    But we did that 4 years ago and we're definitely not hipsters (and were older than these alleged hipsters).There's really no defining trait among them aside from being young and not dressing like corporate drones. But most of the older people here don't dress like drones either.

  3. #28
    It's true. Funny, even though I know 'hipster' == my strawman, I still hate them. And yet, when I meet individuals (usually pre-concert because we have to share a table or whatnot), I get along with them just fine.

  4. #29
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Steve shared this on FB:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/s...ll-look-alike/

    I disagree with one statement:
    There are two kinds of people in this world: those who like to go with the flow, and those who do the opposite — hipsters, in other words.
    I reject the notion that hipsters are nonconformists. They conform to hipster norms.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    I disagree with one statement:I reject the notion that hipsters are nonconformists. They conform to hipster norms.
    I totally agree. I am about as non-conformist as they come and I'm also about as far away from hipsterism as one can be. Hipsters care too much about how they look, which is conformity, IMO.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  6. #31
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    Neo Nazi Hipsters - Nipsters


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    Quote Originally Posted by Calabasas_Trafalgar View Post
    pretty much fedoras of any sort. Doesn't matter how much they cost.
    unless you talk about the computer operating system Fedora, which is free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    Steve shared this on FB:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/s...ll-look-alike/

    I disagree with one statement:I reject the notion that hipsters are nonconformists. They conform to hipster norms.
    I thought was the point being made in the post you quoted. I took it as ironic, like the crowd in Life of Brian chanting in unison "We are all individuals!"

  10. #35
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    I was fascinated when I noticed that just above, Firth has this signature at the bottom of his posts: "Freaking Out is a process whereby an individual casts off outmoded and restricting standards of thinking, dress, and social etiquette in order to express creatively his relationship to his immediate environment and the social structure as a whole." --Zappa

    In the context of this Thread, it really seems to hint at the actual reality or at least, irony of the "hipster" thing. Whatever one calls it ("freaking out," being a "hippie," "hipster," etc.) Zappa is describing is the REAL thing...the concept of realizing that the status quo might not be the best way to be happy and to learn. Rather, by chucking the trappings of the current society, keeping an open mind, and picking and choosing the best and most helpful cultural elements of the past and the present, one can become a better person and help society. So many "hip" movements have aspired to this and despite the fact that there really is no such thing as a card-carrying hipster (like so many categories of personality type, it is just a generalization and many people that look like a hipster are not...many people that swear they aren't really are, etc.).

    Perhaps many or most of the people out there that appear to be hipsters really DO (or, at least pretend to) value these lofty goals. They do seem to espouse pro-societal interests (recycling, alternative energy sources, a holistic approach to life, see value in other cultures, etc.). However, my personal hunch is that unfortunately, like so many of the previous groups of young people (Gen X, millenials), the reality is that they are much more interested in wealth and material things. In particular, the reputation that hipsters have for mining the past for just the right accessories and products for their own selfish purposes seems well-deserved. So much of the time, the choice of where and what they eat, the music they listen to, the beer they drink, and the popular causes they adopt, are more for the appearance value and to earn "street cred" with their pals. They seem much less interested in REALLY changing their minds and the world. Rather, they want to look good. That seems to be the main goal. They want to jump on the latest bandwagon and be seen with just the right combo of fashions, Bourbon, coffee drinks, and cuisines. And particularly frustrating to me, as a group, they don't vote.

    And again, in a very poetical way, Mr. Zappa's tendencies and approach seems to neatly encapsulate the subject of hipsters...I think of all of the hilarious parodies he did over the years gently mocking hippies, valley girls, etc. If he was still around today I know he would have already done a great send-up of the hipsters.

    I am not trying to be overly judgmental; I try to keep my suspicion of trends and my general frustrations with mass-culture in check. There ARE some wonderful people that look like hipsters. But there are tons of posers out there. I think most of the posts above refer to the posing that seems all too apparent.

    But are they really to blame? They are a product of our western culture that values the consumer-based society. After all, advertising for decades has preached that it really isn't substance that matters...it is the appearance that matters most. "It is better to look good than to feel good." (Billy Crystal)

    But don't blame the hats. I dig a quality fur-felt fedora with just the right bash and with just the right tilt of the brim. I have several nice ones. Why? Because I just look so damn good in one! But I had them waaaay before they were cool! Ha ha...

  11. #36
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    Gizmotron, thanks for the comparison. Great essay.🏆

  12. #37
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    ...can't help myself!

    (Thanks!)

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    A "trilby" then.wikipedia.org Trilby
    And even though it might make a hipster cringe, steampunk, wearing tweed clothes in the summertime riding old bike around counts too.
    I think that's the other sign of a hipster - they call it a fedora when it's actually a trilby.
    <sig out of order>

  14. #39
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotron View Post
    I was fascinated when I noticed that just above, Firth has this signature at the bottom of his posts: "Freaking Out is a process whereby an individual casts off outmoded and restricting standards of thinking, dress, and social etiquette in order to express creatively his relationship to his immediate environment and the social structure as a whole." --Zappa

    In the context of this Thread, it really seems to hint at the actual reality or at least, irony of the "hipster" thing. Whatever one calls it ("freaking out," being a "hippie," "hipster," etc.) Zappa is describing is the REAL thing...the concept of realizing that the status quo might not be the best way to be happy and to learn. Rather, by chucking the trappings of the current society, keeping an open mind, and picking and choosing the best and most helpful cultural elements of the past and the present, one can become a better person and help society. So many "hip" movements have aspired to this and despite the fact that there really is no such thing as a card-carrying hipster (like so many categories of personality type, it is just a generalization and many people that look like a hipster are not...many people that swear they aren't really are, etc.).

    Perhaps many or most of the people out there that appear to be hipsters really DO (or, at least pretend to) value these lofty goals. They do seem to espouse pro-societal interests (recycling, alternative energy sources, a holistic approach to life, see value in other cultures, etc.). However, my personal hunch is that unfortunately, like so many of the previous groups of young people (Gen X, millenials), the reality is that they are much more interested in wealth and material things. In particular, the reputation that hipsters have for mining the past for just the right accessories and products for their own selfish purposes seems well-deserved. So much of the time, the choice of where and what they eat, the music they listen to, the beer they drink, and the popular causes they adopt, are more for the appearance value and to earn "street cred" with their pals. They seem much less interested in REALLY changing their minds and the world. Rather, they want to look good. That seems to be the main goal. They want to jump on the latest bandwagon and be seen with just the right combo of fashions, Bourbon, coffee drinks, and cuisines. And particularly frustrating to me, as a group, they don't vote.

    And again, in a very poetical way, Mr. Zappa's tendencies and approach seems to neatly encapsulate the subject of hipsters...I think of all of the hilarious parodies he did over the years gently mocking hippies, valley girls, etc. If he was still around today I know he would have already done a great send-up of the hipsters.

    I am not trying to be overly judgmental; I try to keep my suspicion of trends and my general frustrations with mass-culture in check. There ARE some wonderful people that look like hipsters. But there are tons of posers out there. I think most of the posts above refer to the posing that seems all too apparent.

    But are they really to blame? They are a product of our western culture that values the consumer-based society. After all, advertising for decades has preached that it really isn't substance that matters...it is the appearance that matters most. "It is better to look good than to feel good." (Billy Crystal)

    But don't blame the hats. I dig a quality fur-felt fedora with just the right bash and with just the right tilt of the brim. I have several nice ones. Why? Because I just look so damn good in one! But I had them waaaay before they were cool! Ha ha...
    Maybe this is getting way off topic, but after reading your post I thought of this article I read recently:

    http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/02/...-mentally-ill/
    <sig out of order>

  15. #40
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    Wow...deep stuff there Plasmatopia! Thanks!

  16. #41
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Sometimes the hipster attitude may be considered anti-authoritarian.
    Other times it's sort of the opposite of 'he's just not that in to you', instead it is 'You are just not into it enough'.
    Sort of very authoritarian, just to an ideal, not government or other authorities.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
    -- Aristotle
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  17. #42
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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  18. #43
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
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  19. #44
    Member davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    I reject the notion that hipsters are nonconformists. They conform to hipster norms.
    This cat named Frank Zappa said the same thing about hippies. basically.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I am about as non-conformist as they come and I'm also about as far away from hipsterism as one can be. Hipsters care too much about how they look, which is conformity, IMO.
    Very interesting comment,,..what do you not conform to?

  20. #45
    On South Park I remember Stan wanted to be a goth kid and they told him something like, "We hate conforming. You can't be one of us unless you dress like we do and do the same stuff we do." It was put better than that but of course that's the idea.

  21. #46
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Material: Conform to the rythm


  22. #47
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Police Advise Black Youth to Dress Ironically to Avoid Trouble
    We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
    It won't be visible through the air
    And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973

  23. #48
    @ Plasmatopia

    Many thanks for that article. If I could think of the words to use, I'll do it but at the moment I just don't know what to say. The one thing I can say right now is the examples of Einstein and Alinsky describe my thoughts and experiences to a t, minus the big brains those guys had.

    Never thought I'd have anything in common with Einstein.

    Just so's I'm on topic, I'll say I still don't know what a hipster is. I also don't know(nor do I want to) what twerking is. Not sure what either means, good or bad.
    Carry On My Blood-Ejaculating Son - JKL2000

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    @ Plasmatopia

    Many thanks for that article. If I could think of the words to use, I'll do it but at the moment I just don't know what to say. The one thing I can say right now is the examples of Einstein and Alinsky describe my thoughts and experiences to a t, minus the big brains those guys had.

    Never thought I'd have anything in common with Einstein.

    Just so's I'm on topic, I'll say I still don't know what a hipster is. I also don't know(nor do I want to) what twerking is. Not sure what either means, good or bad.
    To call Einstein an anti-authoritarian, and then say hipsters are also, is comparing apples to oranges. Einstein grew up with old fashioned authoritarianism which actually could not take advantage of his superior mental talents. The authentic hipster seeks to identify the manufactured and stamped out world, either using themselves as an example of difference. The stamped out world can have more models today than in the past. This makes it more and more difficult to be original. Einstein was not a hipster because he did not consciously separate himself, his physics were just revolutionary. The German schools he went to were all about discipline and I wonder at times how the Germans were so creative and technical at the same time. I think that the upper crust get the thinking education, but the rest get discipline. Being Jewish for Einstein perhaps meant that he had an advantage compared to the rest of the middle class with respect to alternative thinking.
    Alinsky was a politician and meets more the hipster definition to me. Original only with respect to those he decided to be different from. Karl Marx was original and authentic, and a product of that time.

  25. #50
    Just to be clear, I said I don't know what a hipster is. I never compared Einstein to one. I was just responding to the article posted and it was off topic and had nothing to do with hipsters, except where I stated I don't know what they are.

    I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with you Firth but I just want to clarify what I said.
    Carry On My Blood-Ejaculating Son - JKL2000

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