King Crimson News

[Frumious B]

The answer is simple. Crimson is actually no different from any other classic rock dinosaur band that endlessly tours the back catalog.

[notallwhowander]

What was the question?

[Zappathustra]

I think what people mean when they talk of a "studio album" is not necessarily that it was all recorded in a studio - "Starless and Bible Black" was 2/3rds live and is still viewed as one of KC's "studio albums" - but that it contains all previously unheard material. KC's live albums would be an equivalent to that if one release had all the new material in one place. That would be more of a "statement" of where KC are at now than bits of new material on 3-4 different live albums. There is still validity, I think, in presenting a 40-60 minutes of new music on a separate release.

I understand Fripp's reservations about going back into the studio with such a large line-up - bad memories of the double-trio there - but he has said that with the quality and practicality of making live recordings these days, a new 'studio album' culled from 'de-audienced' live recordings would be feasible... if they have enough new material written, rehearsed and performed, which doesn't yet seem to be the case.

Yes Calyx, thank you, that's exactly what I had in mind.

[helix]

I think what people mean when they talk of a "studio album" is not necessarily that it was all recorded in a studio - "Starless and Bible Black" was 2/3rds live and is still viewed as one of KC's "studio albums" - but that it contains all previously unheard material. KC's live albums would be an equivalent to that if one release had all the new material in one place. That would be more of a "statement" of where KC are at now than bits of new material on 3-4 different live albums. There is still validity, I think, in presenting a 40-60 minutes of new music on a separate release.

I understand Fripp's reservations about going back into the studio with such a large line-up - bad memories of the double-trio there - but he has said that with the quality and practicality of making live recordings these days, a new 'studio album' culled from 'de-audienced' live recordings would be feasible... if they have enough new material written, rehearsed and performed, which doesn't yet seem to be the case.

Yes Calyx, thank you, that's exactly what I had in mind.

yep. a sober assessment devoid of the need to state a selfish opinion or some pithy bullshit


to me, the current Crim is playing catalog (obviously) more than any other version yet is still offering the openness and improv as past versions. it may not rely as much as the Wetton/Brufords or the Deception of the Thrushes but it's always a part of the presentation (if, drummer focused).

tho I think I would chafe at a new LP of Jakkos songs (which I love) tied between a set of drum interludes, I would trust that Gavin may have an overall "composition" of his pieces played the last 5 years and wonder of this is a conversation that they've all had in terms of a "new album". I keep it in mind that some of Tony and Mel's pieces are just stunning as well . . .


any observant fan should know that this studio tit/live tat is a part of the Crimson model for a "new LP". all you need to do is listen to the discography. know of what you speak

[moecurlythanu]

Wrong example - the music for "Matte Kudasai" was predominantly Fripp's - and was originally written as an instrumental for the League of Gentlemen.

Read Budda's post again. He's talking about performance, not authorship. The Power Trio, in this case.

[Sean]

"This is enigmatic. What is Robert's role? I assume this goes beyond playing guitar."

When it comes to the band I'd say he's a caretaker as much as a guitarist.

[Buddhabreath]

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion...but surely Robert is equally entitled, no?

Of course. I was just sharing my impression of Mr. Belew's ejoyable performance and of course it is just IMHO FWIW. No argument here with the poster's remarks or your response. Art is, if nothing else, subjective. :-)

[Haruspex Carnage]

I would say Robert's role is, amongst other things, and as the only person who has been involved in the band for its entire half century existence, the primary determiner of what makes something Crimson and what does not. There's more, but I think, in a nutshell, that's really what it comes down to.

But that's just my interpretation....

i think this is also in line of his beforehand remarks of something along the lines of no one in this current band resents him.

[polmico]

Oh. This will be good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=I...&v=aecG7-S3l8Q

[bigjohnwayne]

Oh. This will be good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=I...&v=aecG7-S3l8Q

My thoughts exactly. It'll be nice to hear what Pat sounds like along for the first time in a while! (In Crimson at least.) I like many of Gavin Harrison's drum arrangements--especially on the '08 drum duo stuff I've heard, as well as Indiscipline, Fallen Angel, Larks 1 and Larks 2--but I think Pat has that Muir-ish edge that I love in Crimson drummers.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Oh. This will be good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=I...&v=aecG7-S3l8Q

This is (not unexpectedly) pretty different. Makes me wish the original version would still be available (the more ideal disc 2 in this package than H&E, IMO)

Also, maybe this will lead to FraKctured making the current lineup's repertoire.

Not sure I love the drum sounds either...mix seems a bit weird too to my very cloth ears.

[Sean]

What do you all think of this with the new, real drums?

[bigjohnwayne]

What do you all think of this with the new, real drums?

I like it. Its amazing how a different drum track can turn the sound from "Discipline-era but slower and heavier" to someplace within shouting distance of "Larks-era but with artsy nu-metal guitars". I am eager to hear the version of the title track.

I still enjoy the original version a lot. Heavy Construkction converted me to those compositions, even if the production on the album is a bit strange.

[MudShark22]

The issue IMO was always less Pat's electronic kit than not 'playing in' the tunage live before recording.

Every live version of TCOL material is better than the studio version IMO.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

What do you all think of this with the new, real drums?

haven't listened to TCOL since the year it came out... I forgot that Mastelotto was on that album! I thought it was only Broof

[happytheman]

Anyone read this?
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...Uw3-K98Hv8nS3I

[NogbadTheBad]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...YLWGWMSjpGZJcQ

Good recap of the press conference^^

Anyone read this?
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...Uw3-K98Hv8nS3I

Yes

[notallwhowander]

When I got to the part about the Crimson Project, I got the impression that Fripp wasn't so much angry at the band, but angry that the band wasn't King Crimson. He obviously loves King Crimson, and would like to see King Crimson survive beyond himself. But by whatever intuitive metric he has for determining if King Crimson is present, King Crimson did not show up at the Crimson Project show. So Fripp left angry.

[SunshipVoyager1976]

When I got to the part about the Crimson Project, I got the impression that Fripp wasn't so much angry at the band, but angry that the band wasn't King Crimson. He obviously loves King Crimson, and would like to see King Crimson survive beyond himself. But by whatever intuitive metric he has for determining if King Crimson is present, King Crimson did not show up at the Crimson Project show. So Fripp left angry.

Angry because he would have to unretire if he wanted to hear Crimson again?

Yeah I was thinking that as well.

[notallwhowander]

Yeah. Exactly.

[jkelman]

The answer is simple. Crimson is actually no different from any other classic rock dinosaur band that endlessly tours the back catalog.

Except they never did before...and the way this band interprets 50 years of music is far from simple repertory, at least IMHO. Some material is, indeed, relatively faithful (or, at least, as a band with three-drummer arrangements can be!)...but most has been reworked, rearranged and reinterpreted, rather than trying to replicate what cams before. AND they have about an LP's worth of new material.

Sorry Fruminous, but you and I will never agree on this one

[jkelman]

to me, the current Crim is playing catalog (obviously) more than any other version yet is still offering the openness and improv as past versions. it may not rely as much as the Wetton/Brufords or the Deception of the Thrushes but it's always a part of the presentation (if, drummer focused).

tho I think I would chafe at a new LP of Jakkos songs (which I love) tied between a set of drum interludes, I would trust that Gavin may have an overall "composition" of his pieces played the last 5 years and wonder of this is a conversation that they've all had in terms of a "new album". I keep it in mind that some of Tony and Mel's pieces are just stunning as well . . .


any observant fan should know that this studio tit/live tat is a part of the Crimson model for a "new LP". all you need to do is listen to the discography. know of what you speak

Thanks. I'm with ya 100%...

[jkelman]

Oh. This will be good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=I...&v=aecG7-S3l8Q

Excerpted from my Facebook post today:

Meanwhile, I'm starting to dig into the upcoming Heaven and Earth box, having (thankfully...there's going to be a LOT to absorb in that one!) received downloads of the 18 CDs. I'll be looking forward to the advances of the Blu Ray discs, but at over 18 hours, this is a fine start!

And let me say it now: congratulations, Pat Mastelotto, for your ReconstruKction of Light! I don't know if Robert Fripp agrees, but if this isn't how they album should have sounded, it's sure pretty close, at least IMO. Meatier and, with the replacement of an (IMO) excessive balance of electronic drums by acoustic kit (not to mention an alternate approach to blending and separating the guitar parts that's really working for me), this deserves to be considered the definitive version of an album whose material showed a lot of promise in its initial release, but which ultimately sounded much better in performance (e.g. Heavy ConstruKction, which is included in the box in an altered form). Great work, man!!

[jkelman]

Of course. I was just sharing my impression of Mr. Belew's ejoyable performance and of course it is just IMHO FWIW. No argument here with the poster's remarks or your response. Art is, if nothing else, subjective. :-)

Indeed...and fair enough!

[jkelman]

I like it. Its amazing how a different drum track can turn the sound from "Discipline-era but slower and heavier" to someplace within shouting distance of "Larks-era but with artsy nu-metal guitars". I am eager to hear the version of the title track. .

Just to be clear: Pat does a lot more than just replace the drums. The mix of the guitars (and, in some cases, flat out how they sound) is very different, and his decisions re: placement and emphasis are also very different to the original. If I didn't know the material so well, I'd call this a new album...and calling it "ReconstruKction" is a very fitting term.