Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
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“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
I would think that if you want to stand out, the best way to do that is to buck the trends, and go with casettes and Vynil and stay away from the digital void. But then, I am a "failed" musician, so I'm not even sure why I'm commenting in this thread. It is interesting though. The music business is not good to most musicians. Music is hardly a commodity - as soon as it becomes truly worth something it is immediately taken and usurped by anyone for almost any reason. You survive - in spite of the success. not because of it.
I got nothin' :
...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.
live samples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbCFGbAtFc
https://youtu.be/AEE5OZXJioE
https://soundcloud.com/yodelgoat/yod...om-a-live-show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUe3YhCjy6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VOCJokzL_s
It's not that they aren't in it for the economics (few want to not at least break even on the cost of making a record)...it's a question of picking the lesser of two evils:
1. Stream, and sacrifice money but satisfy fans who only want to hear you streaming;
2. Don't stream and face the wrath of those in #1 above, which can be considerable.
Also, some artists have no choice; if the label they're on us committed to streaming, then they're streamed, irrespective of their wishes,
It's a complex question and you're looking for a simple answer. Here's the nut shell version: with streaming,go some extent, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't,
That said, I respect labels like Panegyruc/DGM and Cuneiforn, who've said 'fuck it' to streaming. Personally I don't support streaming.
I can see both sides of the argument. The sad reality is that yesterday's business model does not work today. Streaming is where the action is and if music is a loss-leader (and that appears to be the case) then we, as fans, must support our favorite acts all the more!!!
The Prog Corner
Well, read the responses. Economics are not a concern for some prog artists. They most surely are for others. I, too, think that the appropriate model is that employed by the likes of niche players such as Cunieform/DGM/Glass Hammer and now that I think of it, the Beatles, although The Fabs are most assuredly not niche artists! If you want their stuff, you're 'gonna pay for it!
Problem is: those who hear streams and then buy hard media or digital where the artist is reasonably compensated, is the minority. If everyone were like you, we wouldn't have a problem.
Last, as for things returning to touring as music sales plummet? Easy to say when you're young, but when you are in your 60s or 70s, having to spend as much as double the time you used to be on the road is really, really difficult. Folks don't appreciate how many artists play a gig, meet folks afterwards and then need to wind down so get to bed at midnight or later...only to have a 4am wake up for their next trip. These days, even staying in really nice hotels there is nothing glamorous about touring. You spend more time getting to the next gig, sound checking, etc, than you do playing.
People have to do it...but don't think it's a cakewalk. Even my situation, where I got to stay in the same place for 4,days to a week was gruelling...imagine being an aging artist who is traveling to a different show almost every night....it's totally draining.
Few can choose the route Robert Fripp & King Crimson have taken...because few can. But that is, IMO, the only civilized way to tour and it's a shame more musicians can't do it that way.
Damn straight. That said, I am not so sure I agree with the first point, about having to hear an album in it's entirety.
I used to love buying music and being completely surprised by it when I got it home to hear. More often than not it was a great experience; I feel I've been burned by taking risks just a handful of times since I started buying music in 1968-69. And I still don't "taste test" albums before I buy...even artists I don't know. Because if someone(s) I know and respect tell me enough, I have a pretty good idea I'll love it even without sampling.
I really think we've lost that wonderful experience of surprise....
Well,you're right that today's musician must be a businessman as well...but there was a time when they did not...and not all musicians want to be, as it takes major time away from the art. I believe young musicians need to know the business side, but in some ways it's sad...
Not don't know, don't care or are weary of the chase. Most artists with any kind of name would need someone full time looking for all the copyright infringements. And they cannot afford it.
So don't mistake lack of action for lack of caring; it's just that the problem is so big that many artists and labels simply don't have the resources to properly monitor it. That ain't lack of caring; that's lack of resources. Plain and simple.
Do you buy a book without reading it first? Do you pay to see a movie without seeing it first? Do you go into a restaurant and buy something off their menu without trying it first? Do you buy things from the grocery store without trying them first?
There are plenty of counter-arguments to your philosophy ...
Last edited by jkelman; 11-19-2015 at 11:42 AM.
I did. The operative word is some. I engage with plenty of musicians who are not trying to be megastars or millionaires. They're just trying to put a roof over their heads, food on the table, maybe have a family. And for those who do not pursue their music as a profession, while there are absolutely some great bands in that camp, imagine how they'd be if they could focus on their art full-time?
Why is trying to make a living any different than whatever you do to make a living? And there was a time, just a couple decades ago, where they could. I know local musicians who made a living in wedding bands, as studio and concert hired session players and more. But as things have eroded every way to make a living, well, there anthill but ultimately be some impact on the music.
I can tell you from direct personal experience, that if you can play 4-6 nights a week, as it used to be in clubs, you can make a reasonable wage...and you simply cannot help but get better both individually and as a group. That bands now spend more time getting to/from gigs, sound checking, etc, than they do actually writing, rehearsing and performing has absolutely had an impact on the music.
Absolutely not. If the artist pays for a review how can you, as a reader, trust the reviewer to be totally truthful? Promotional material is part of the way the industry works. But paying a reviewer for a review? That's not a review; that's a press sheet.
That said, unscrupulous reviewers is indeed a problem. It's why some companies only send out digital promos at 192k, which is refuse. I've never leaked an album, I've always ensured the folks I deal with can trust me in every way...it's how I get information others might not, because they trust if they say "off the record," it is. But beyond that, reviewers who leak the music ultimately get found out (a lot of media, hard and soft, is watermarked so it's possible to tell who leaked it) and lose access to promotional materials pretty quickly.
But it is absolutely shameful ... The only way to properly work woth artists and labels,is through a trust built up over time. It's served me really well...and it ultimately comes home to roost with those who don't consider such things.
Well, sure. But those counter-arguments don't change the fact that many music consumers want to hear music before they buy it, or consider it bought when they stream it from a Spotify/Apple Music. If those options are made available, people will surely take advantage of them. Wishing it weren't so doesn't change the economic reality of the biz.
I guess my only point was: if you want to make money, you shouldn't be offering full albums for streaming and should employ the DGM/Cunieform model.
Last edited by Guitarplyrjvb; 11-19-2015 at 11:53 AM.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
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