Weather Report question

[rickmoraz]

Big fan of Weather report here. A question that's bothered me for some time. Contrary to many I like This is This quite a bit. My question is about I'll never forget you. Is that really Wayne Shorter playing? First of all the sax sounds strangely "synthed" and the playing, especially some parts during the second climatic part, sound very much like a lead played on a keyboard; although I'll admit that there's no reason that it couldn't be the equivalent of a lyricon, or whatever effects were en vogue at the time. However, it is also on record that Shorter had a very limited participation on the album, hence my doubts.

Is it him or Joe Zawinul on one of his synths?

Thx for any FB

Ed

[Frankh]

I, too love the 'Port.

One of the great shows from the old days, saw them mid 70's, post Miroslav, Alfonso Johnson on bass. Roughly Mysterious Traveller era. Unbelievable show.

I, too enjoy This Is This, but I do not know the answer to your query. I'll give it a listen and get back to you.

[jcarr73729]

Wayne is listed as "saxophones" on the cover art, and I cannot hear a saxophone on that song.
I am only hearing drums, bass, several layers of synthesizers, and Carlos right at the end.
https://www.allmusic.com/album/this-...1-mw0000188921
"Zawinul's synthesizer is replacing Wayne as a simulated solo wind voice"

[rickmoraz]

I, too love the 'Port.

One of the great shows from the old days, saw them mid 70's, post Miroslav, Alfonso Johnson on bass. Roughly Mysterious Traveller era. Unbelievable show.

I, too enjoy This Is This, but I do not know the answer to your query. I'll give it a listen and get back to you.

Hi Frankh,

Just finished looking on Allmusic and I find this:

QUOTE

Already on the delicate "I'll Never Forget You," Zawinul's synthesizer is replacing Wayne as a simulated solo wind voice.

UNQUOTE

At the very least confirms that the solo is "different" from Shorter's usual fare (although Black Market also has a lyricon). Whatever, if it is really Zawinul, between the solo and the "jazz synth orchestra", this is truly a masterpiece.

Ed

PS: thx jcarr73729, seems to confirm as well.

[bRETT]

I vote for lyricon, even if AMG thinks it's a keyboard. Shorter was playing one at the time-- check this track from his solo album Phantom Navigator, which has some similar sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICHDCOiI85I

[jcarr73729]

I vote for lyricon, even if AMG thinks it's a keyboard. Shorter was playing one at the time-- check this track from his solo album Phantom Navigator, which has some similar sounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICHDCOiI85I

I disagree.
1. When I listened to 'I'll Never Forget You', all I heard was JZ, it played like his sound to me, and not WS.
2. WS is listed on every WR album on saxophones, and it sounds nothing like a saxophone.
3. I cited AllMusic.com to reinforce what my ears were telling me.
4. If WS only played on three tracks, then it's clear 'Jungle Stuff', "Man With The Copper Fingers', and 'Consequently' are the three, and they sound like WS on saxophone.
5. WS played Lyricon on one track on 'Phantom Navigator', and 'Yamanja' sounds like WS playing style to me (obviously), however it sounds different to these ears from the WR track in question.
6. I reiterate that 'I'll Never Forget You' has the sound and style of other keyboards JZ used previously on previous WR albums.

'I'll Never Forget You' is dedicated to Joe's parents and the playing style has that portamento favoured by JZ, so my ears tell me there's no WS on that track.

[bRETT]

I disagree.
1. When I listened to 'I'll Never Forget You', all I heard was JZ, it played like his sound to me, and not WS.
2. WS is listed on every WR album on saxophones, and it sounds nothing like a saxophone.
3. I cited AllMusic.com to reinforce what my ears were telling me.
4. If WS only played on three tracks, then it's clear 'Jungle Stuff', "Man With The Copper Fingers', and 'Consequently' are the three, and they sound like WS on saxophone.
5. WS played Lyricon on one track on 'Phantom Navigator', and 'Yamanja' sounds like WS playing style to me (obviously), however it sounds different to these ears from the WR track in question.
6. I reiterate that 'I'll Never Forget You' has the sound and style of other keyboards JZ used previously on previous WR albums.

'I'll Never Forget You' is dedicated to Joe's parents and the playing style has that portamento favoured by JZ, so my ears tell me there's no WS on that track.

A good argument there. JZ's work may have fooled me into thinking it was SHorter, but it was probably supposed to.

[zyryab]

After listening to the track once again, I am convinced by the way the notes are slurred that the lead voice comes from Zawinul's synthesizer. I just cannot remember if Zawinul was already using his Korg PEPE at that time or he started playing later on. Wayne Shorter solos on two songs only ('Jungle Stuff, Part I' and 'Man With The Copper Fingers') and I also think that he doubles the melody on Victor Bailey's 'Consequently' (no solos).

The story behind 'This is This' has been explained in detail over the years and can be easily found in several webpages. Despite being a contractual obligation and a more-or-less solo album by Zawinul, I still like it very much. There are several truly beautiful songs, such as the one of this topic and those who feature Carlos Santana's contribution. Consider me a fan.

[rickmoraz]

After listening to the track once again, I am convinced by the way the notes are slurred that the lead voice comes from Zawinul's synthesizer. I just cannot remember if Zawinul was already using his Korg PEPE at that time or he started playing later on. Wayne Shorter solos on two songs only ('Jungle Stuff, Part I' and 'Man With The Copper Fingers') and I also think that he doubles the melody on Victor Bailey's 'Consequently' (no solos).

The story behind 'This is This' has been explained in detail over the years and can be easily found in several webpages. Despite being a contractual obligation and a more-or-less solo album by Zawinul, I still like it very much. There are several truly beautiful songs, such as the one of this topic and those who feature Carlos Santana's contribution. Consider me a fan.

Indeed the title track and MWTCF have Santana burning the fret board...

Ed