Pallas - Atlantis

[jeffo621]

Hey - typically I go more towards the avant-side of music, but I've heard some good things about Pallas (especially over at Planet Mellotron) so I figured I'd give them a shot. After picking up one of the River Sessions live albums, I opted for an unconventional approach and picked up "The Sentinel Demos." Why? I wanted to hear the full Atlantis Suite as they originally wrote it. I'll probably pick up the Sentinel next week after I get paid.

Despite it's ropey sound quality, I love it. The concept is mostly easy to follow, and the music is great - the musicians all seem concerned with getting the sound "right" vs trying to get it to sound a certain way (and given the prolific yet very tasteful use of mellotron, it's not wonder that Planet Mellotron likes it). It's clearly influenced stylistically (and occasionally musically) by Rush. Some of the lyrics are a bit silly - or maybe "quaint" would be a better word - but it's a fun science fiction concept.

Regarding the story (and I'd love to hear some other interpretations of it), it seems early on that an astronaut discovers the Atlantean scrolls and tries to warn everyone of impending disaster, but he gets thrown into prison, Atlantis rises from the ocean, and a nuclear war breaks out. Yeah, it sounds cheesy when I type it out, but it works, especially since there are quite a fair amount of earworms thrown in musically - and some of the unreleased tracks are every bit as good as the "official" tracks.

It's interesting to think what would've happened if they were allowed to explore the full concept instead of the compromised LP (which was then fleshed out a bit more on the CD release). I'm certain it would have sank like a stone.

~Jeff

[Valen]

Seeing it performed live was even better.

I was lucky enough to catch several home gigs in the run-up to the band recording The Sentinel, and when you added in Euan's costumes and some imaginative (budget) stage effects, it was quite a show.

I remember seeing them for the first time, and everyone literally sat on the club floor to watch and listen, with Euan walking down through the seated audience in his Atlantean costume from the back of the venue as the band pumped out 'March On Atlantis'.

I've got the Sentinel demos and yes, they do sound a bit ropey in places (not as good as the bootleg I recorded from an '84 show...!) but they do offer a nice overarching perspective on the band's concept.

Mind you, Euan's performance of The Ripper as the encore was downright scary.....in sharp contrast to set opener Cut And Run, where Euan tried to blend in anonymously in the crowd at the front of the stage as part of the silent assassin persona. He was so anonymous that no one would let him through to the stage, and then his radio mic cut out....

If you can, try to get hold of the Mythopeia cd-rom which has even more stuff pre-Atlantis, then post-Euan leaving, Alan demos leading up to the Knight Moves EP and loads more stuff.

[Orcopian]

I agree the mythopia cd rom is a must have if you can track it down, although a lot of the contents are now available on pallas's bandcamp page. One interesting item available is an early eddie offord mix of the sentinel which is supposedly far superior to the final mix released in Europe. I recall the band remixed it for the us market and I have a vinyl copy I bought through the fan club way back when. It did sound a lot better and they tried to extend the guitar solo fade out on rise and fall.

One of my favourite items from that period is a cassette I recorded of their reading festival appearance broadcast on the Friday rock show, loads of mellotron on that. It would be great if they could get the rights to release that set.

[emperorken]

Your thread made me revisit "The Sentinel" after quite a few years. Thanks.

[Valen]

One of my favourite items from that period is a cassette I recorded of their reading festival appearance broadcast on the Friday rock show, loads of mellotron on that. It would be great if they could get the rights to release that set.

Good call! I've got that broadcast too - it was a belter of a set wasn't it? I've got it on a C90 tape with Twelfth Night's set on the other side.

That was some Reading Festival in '83, with Marillion's set also being broadcast that weekend and blowing away the Gillan-fronted Sabbath who had to follow them. I think you can get the Marillo set on cd as part of their official Early Years set.

Back to Pallas - did you ever hear the studio session they did for the Friday Rock Show? I think I've got that one on the same tape I used to bootleg their Brave New World set. I can't remeber the running order for the FRS session, but if I recall, it did have an interesting medley.

If you enjoyed Pallas circa '83, then try tracking down The River Sessions cds mentioned by the first post above. One of the cds is a broadcast by Radio Clyde, taken from a Glasgow gig in the early 80's - sound quality is very good and arguably better than the official Arrive Alive cassette/LP/Cd.

[Yeswave]

The Sentinel was a big thing back then for me and my friends desperate to discover some new prog sounds as teenagers very much into the music just as it was dying out and we found one right here is Scotland. I know the band were unhappy with the final mix/release and many subsequent releases have been made by the band to correct this. I personally can't get past that original version I fell in love with. We had the missing tracks like March of Atlantis and East West released as 7 inch b sides, so that was a nice little treat. The band of course hear all the "poor mixes" and omissions. I just hear a brilliant album. It got one of my votes for best prog album ever in the current Prog Mag poll.
...and rememeber, new album "wearewhoweare" is just about to come out.

[Rufus]

Wasn't there a remastered/expanded edition released a while back that included the whole 'Atlantis' suite???

[jeffo621]

Valen said

If you enjoyed Pallas circa '83, then try tracking down The River Sessions cds mentioned by the first post above. One of the cds is a broadcast by Radio Clyde, taken from a Glasgow gig in the early 80's - sound quality is very good and arguably better than the official Arrive Alive cassette/LP/Cd.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the one I got. Very good sound, and pretty inexpensive - which is why I made that my first foray into Pallas.

Then Rufus said:

Wasn't there a remastered/expanded edition released a while back that included the whole 'Atlantis' suite???

As near as I can tell (and I'm very much a Pallas rookie), the CD release of The Sentinel contains Rise and Fall/East West/March on Atlantis/Atlantis, which is what they have released live whenever they play the "full" suite. Then there is also Sentinel track "Ark of Infinity," which seems to be an epilogue to the story. It doesn't look like the original concept - 70 minutes or so by my count - was ever released other than the Sentinel Demos. It's a shame too, because tracks like The Cell, Flashpoint 2 and Calm Before the Storm are really terrific and flesh out the story quite well.

[Valen]

It was basically the original Sentinel LP plus b-sides from the 12" singles - East West, March on Atlantis, Heart Attack - remixed and re-sequenced for CD, with some interesting liner notes about the concept.

CD was first released by the band on an obscure label, but then it was re-released on Inside Out, but that was quite a few years ago. Amazon UK are now selling it for silly money.

[Rufus]

It was basically the original Sentinel LP plus b-sides from the 12" singles - East West, March on Atlantis, Heart Attack - remixed and re-sequenced for CD, with some interesting liner notes about the concept.

CD was first released by the band on an obscure label, but then it was re-released on Inside Out, but that was quite a few years ago. Amazon UK are now selling it for silly money.

Damn, I foolishly passed on it! Hopefully it will get re-released????

[ItalProgRules]

The Sentinel for me is one of those rare albums that gets better and better as it goes on.

The first several tracks are just OK, IMHO, then they get better and better till by the last couple of mini-epics it's incredible.

[Orcopian]

Good call! I've got that broadcast too - it was a belter of a set wasn't it? I've got it on a C90 tape with Twelfth Night's set on the other side.

That was some Reading Festival in '83, with Marillion's set also being broadcast that weekend and blowing away the Gillan-fronted Sabbath who had to follow them. I think you can get the Marillo set on cd as part of their official Early Years set.

Back to Pallas - did you ever hear the studio session they did for the Friday Rock Show? I think I've got that one on the same tape I used to bootleg their Brave New World set. I can't remeber the running order for the FRS session, but if I recall, it did have an interesting medley.

If you enjoyed Pallas circa '83, then try tracking down The River Sessions cds mentioned by the first post above. One of the cds is a broadcast by Radio Clyde, taken from a Glasgow gig in the early 80's - sound quality is very good and arguably better than the official Arrive Alive cassette/LP/Cd.

Yes I did exactly the same thing with pallas and twelfth night on a c90 cassette! I listened to it loads at the time. Did you know that twelfth night have released a DVD of their set which also has an mp3 of the audio included as well? The DVD is a crowd camcorder synced to the music, it's quite well done and well packaged.

I have a tape of the frs session somewhere, I'm pretty sure the medley was rise and fall segueing into heart attack.

I've got quite a few pallas bootlegs from the time, one of the most interesting is one with fish joining in on a few genesis coders, I think it was called the audio silence tour and the tape I have says it was recorded in cantubury. It also has some of the unreleased Atlantis songs on it.

Prog magazine had a good article on the recording of the sentinel a few issues back, with lots of insight and pictures.

One other thing I would say about the sentinel is that Ronnie Brown's keyboards are sensational, on a par with Eloy's planets as in my view the best keyboards on an 80's prog album. I almost said analogue but of course the synclavier was used on the sentinel.

[Yeswave]

...One other thing I would say about the sentinel is that Ronnie Brown's keyboards are sensational, on a par with Eloy's planets as in my view the best keyboards on an 80's prog album. I almost said analogue but of course the synclavier was used on the sentinel.

I think Ronnie is one of the most consistent and most underrated (or at least "underknown") keyboard players in the business.

[gingernut]

Damn, I foolishly passed on it! Hopefully it will get re-released????

Hmmm. Last year I sold my Centaur release of The Sentinel, for a non-spectacular price and purchased the Inside Out 2000 release (standard jewel case) and the Inside Out 2004 Artwork Collector's edition (CD in a 7" case). The latter as an investment really, with a view to selling at some point, even though I'd feel slightly guilty about making a profit from a fellow prog fan!. I see Amazon US has it for sale at $132 !!! Crikey!

[Orcopian]

Just been browsing through pallas releases on Spotify. There seems to be 3 versions of the sentinel, one of which includes the bbc Friday rock show session, the tracks are cut and run, arrive alive and rise and fall/ heart attack medley.

I've only got the centaur release, I never noticed the art collection version before, that looks really nice but pretty expensIve. I've still got the free poster that came with my original vinyl release though.

Pallas are working on their latest cd which I guess will take up their focus for some time, but It would be great if they were to play the full sentinel live (with the extra tracks) sometime in the future, new singer paul mackie would really do it justice I would think.

[jeffo621]

Judging by the "Pallas Set 2013" release, they're still playing the 23 minute or so Atlantis Suite. And given that XXV is apparently a sequel to The Sentinel, I could see them doing a full out Atlantis/XXV two hour show. Or maybe not - as I said in the original post, I've only been listening to the band for a few weeks so my knowledge of them is miniscule.

Speaking of XXV, any opinions on it? I'm also debating about which Alan Reed-era release I should get first. Given the amount of live stuff they have out there, I may just pick one of those up and see which track I like, then take it from there.

[Valen]

I liked XXV at the time it was released, but for me it hasn't stood the test of time, as I can barely remember the songs now. Perhaps it didn't have enough musical links to the melodies and themes of The Sentinel?

It's not a bad album by any means - production is very good, and artwork etc is striking, and performances are fine - but I'm not sure that Paul Mackie's rock-style singing worked for me. Mind you, Alan Reed's voice was so far down in the mix on the two prior albums, that vocals have always been a struggle for me to hear clearly on Pallas albums. Certainly, Paul's voice is stronger and has more presence, but I just don't know....

As far as Alan-era releases, I would go for The Cross and The Crucible. It has a good solid sound and strong songs, and strikes a good balance between a contemporary sound and the band's earlier mellotron sound circa The Sentinel material.

The Wedge (or Knightmoves To Wedge) album also has good stuff on it, but the 80's production and sound effects make it sound dated. Still, it also includes the EP that had Sanctuary, one of the best things the band have ever done.

Beat The Drum is ok as a statement of intent, as the band returned to the studio after a lengthy absence, but it the mix is a little on quiet side losing some of the detail in the instruments, and there are perhaps too many songs vying for attention.

Dreams of Men is better, but is similar to Cross and Crucible, which is the better of the two albums.

I wouldn't bother with the live albums - Alan's voice is not the strongest, and a lot of Niall's guitar flourishes get lost in the mix.

[gingernut]

IMHO...

The Sentinel - Absolute classic, except of course for Arrive Alive which should have been relegated to a B-side.
The Wedge - pass!
Beat The Drum - I like about half of it, not essential.
Cross & Crucible - Excellent album, many long, strong tracks.
Dreams of Men - I know others will disagree, but bar a couple of tracks, its not for me.
XXV - Great expectations not fulfilled I'm sad to say. 1 track makes my iPod. I don't mind the heavier approach.

[emperorken]

Speaking of XXV, any opinions on it? I'm also debating about which Alan Reed-era release I should get first. Given the amount of live stuff they have out there, I may just pick one of those up and see which track I like, then take it from there.

I'm not a fan of XXV. The loss of Alan Reed hurt. As for Reed era albums, I would go for "The Dreams of Men". To my ears, at least, it is not only Pallas' finest album, it is one of the best neo-prog albums ever. "The Cross and the Crucible" would be runner up.