ELP's Works Vol. 2: Far better than I expected...

[Paulrus]

I have to admit I've had the album for a few months and was kind of afraid to listen to it for fear of disappointment. Not sure why I do such things. But with ELP, I've always looked at their demise as a musical tragedy. A band that was on top of the world only to have everything come crashing down so quickly. It's happened to a lot of groups. But with ELP, they have had a worse fate, being dismissed and even forgotten. There is so little respect for them, even in the prog world, and I can't think of many bands this has happened to in such an extreme way. And musically they ended things weakly with Love Beach. Nice to finally find out that Works Vol. 2 is not the disaster I was expecting.

Glad you found reason to enjoy it. I recall the last time I heard it thinking "You know, some of this is pretty damn good!" What puts me off the most is Emo's GX-1 fetish and Palmer's balls-less drumming.

And I agree about the tragedy of ELP's fall from grace. But it's really not that much of a surprise considering of all the Big 5 prog bands they most championed the infusion of classical influences, for which there was absolutely no use in the mid to late 70s.

Stuff like "So Far To Fall" worked well, though IMO "When the Apple Blossoms Bloom..." was an even better direction for them to take. It hinted at a more fusion-y direction in a Kraan sort of way, and I could see them riding out the punk/new-wave storm with several albums of that kind of thing that would also allow time for everyone to go off and do solo stuff (Carl - Asia, Greg - Gary Moore solo, Kieth - soundtracks).

[Sputnik]

I have this in my collection, but I don't spin it in its entirety very often. I have a compilation CDR I made of material from Works I and II that gets most of the attention. My favorite track on Works II is Apple Blossoms. I also like Tiger, BSS and So Far to Fall, which is sort of a "flawed gem" in my view. Taken as a "clean out the closet" release, Works II has a few things that usually entice ELP fans.

Bill

[Man In The Mountain]

I actually pulled this album out just a few weeks ago, and put it in my iTunes. I don't think I've heard it in about 20 years, honestly. It didn't rekindle any love for it though, I found it all rather campy. Most of the better songs, would be nice as a filler track between some nice epics of their older stuff. If I want ELP, I want blazing Moog and Hammond solos and epic symphonic structures.

Overall, it's just not rock enough or even prog-rock, definitely not crazy-weird at all, and I don't really know what led them down this path. The whole WORKS thing, I think, was a huge miscalculation. Did they think they were beyond rock music at this point, and they were serious classical musicians? I think they did. Even hiring an orchestra to tour with them.

I can't help but wonder why they didn't try and make a double album, after BSS, into something more along the lines of Tales From Topographic Oceans?

[Scott Bails]

I can't help but wonder why they didn't try and make a double album, after BSS, into something more along the lines of Tales From Topographic Oceans?

I've heard Carl say that he was tired of the whole "20-minute epic thing."

[Paulrus]

I don't really know what led them down this path. The whole WORKS thing, I think, was a huge miscalculation. Did they think they were beyond rock music at this point, and they were serious classical musicians? I think they did. Even hiring an orchestra to tour with them.

I can't help but wonder why they didn't try and make a double album, after BSS, into something more along the lines of Tales From Topographic Oceans?

I think they were all pretty burned out after the '74 touring. There were just a 3-piece band, remember, playing huge prog extravaganzas every show. And an argument could be made that BSS had as much (if not more) content for a 2-sided LP by a trio than what Yes came up with for 4 sides on Topographic as a quintet.

Plus, they probably knew they're reached a kind of pinnacle with what they'd been doing the past 4 years and a next step wasn't immediately obvious to them. Certainly nothing in current musical fashions at the time helped them out. So they took a long, much needed rest and recharged their batteries.

It took longer than planned for the Works album to come out (Keith's house burned down, for one thing) and in hindsight it probably would have been better for them to all do solo albums in '75-'76 just like Yes did (though I wonder if they avoided that just BECAUSE Yes were doing it). But they did have "Fanfare" and "Pirates" and it seemed like everyone wanted to keep some kind of momentum going. Works 2 truly was their Odds and Sods in that it collected every leftover scrap they could find just to keep the release pipeline fed. At the time it probably seemed like the right thing to do, and I'm glad that music was released rather than shelved.

[Mister Triscuits]

Works 2 truly was their Odds and Sods

Or 12 bonus tracks in search of an album.

[ItalProgRules]

Or 12 bonus tracks in search of an album.

That would have been a better title than Works Volume 2!

[grego]

But it's really not that much of a surprise considering of all the Big 5 prog bands they most championed the infusion of classical influences, for which there was absolutely no use in the mid to late 70s.

No use.. for whom? What's so important had happened for prog listeners about mid-70s - glam, punk? Count me out of timed "no use in classical influences' crowd. I think the main attraction ELP brought to rock was the fusion of rock and 20th Cent. classical music - unfortunately, they followed well-trodden path of Romantic music in late 70s. But at the beginning of 70s, from 71 to 73, the band explored Expressionism, Modernism and Neo-Classicism, fugures like Ginastera, Copland, Bartok were the huge influence - not only in rearrangments, but for band's original music.

[grego]

I can't help but wonder why they didn't try and make a double album, after BSS, into something more along the lines of Tales From Topographic Oceans?

Agree, something like that could be a better way, than trying on tail-coats..)
Though I don't think they put themselves up above rock..Works Orchestral project seemed like natural development for them..

[bRETT]

. Works 2 truly was their Odds and Sods in that it collected every leftover scrap they could find just to keep the release pipeline fed..

Also, to make back some of the $ that was lost on the orchestrated tour.

[gallen1964]

Palmer superb on this album. More restrained but much more interesting time playing than with Asia. Some great grooves and fills and even some funk. Steel kit never sounded better and his hi hat bark on Apple Blossom and BSS is amazing.

[Rufus]

Palmer superb on this album. More restrained but much more interesting time playing than with Asia. Some great grooves and fills and even some funk. Steel kit never sounded better and his hi hat bark on Apple Blossom and BSS is amazing.

^^^^THIS

[Yanks2014]

I like Vol.II much, much better than Vol.I

I wont go that far, since I really love Fanfare and Pirates, two ELP classics as far as I'm concerned. I also really like most of the Palmer side. The Lake stuff is a mixed bag at best. The piano concerto? Keith on a grand piano, enough said.

[Yanks2014]

I think they were all pretty burned out after the '74 touring. There were just a 3-piece band, remember, playing huge prog extravaganzas every show. And an argument could be made that BSS had as much (if not more) content for a 2-sided LP by a trio than what Yes came up with for 4 sides on Topographic as a quintet.

Plus, they probably knew they're reached a kind of pinnacle with what they'd been doing the past 4 years and a next step wasn't immediately obvious to them. Certainly nothing in current musical fashions at the time helped them out. So they took a long, much needed rest and recharged their batteries.

It took longer than planned for the Works album to come out (Keith's house burned down, for one thing) and in hindsight it probably would have been better for them to all do solo albums in '75-'76 just like Yes did (though I wonder if they avoided that just BECAUSE Yes were doing it). But they did have "Fanfare" and "Pirates" and it seemed like everyone wanted to keep some kind of momentum going. Works 2 truly was their Odds and Sods in that it collected every leftover scrap they could find just to keep the release pipeline fed. At the time it probably seemed like the right thing to do, and I'm glad that music was released rather than shelved.

Sounds like a lot of excuses. The break they took was career suicide, really, incredibly stupid on their part if you ask me. Nearly a 3 year break at the peak of their popularity? And this was a time bands put an album out every year. And trends were changing much faster than they do today How freaking tired could they be from touring in 74? Compare that to people with a real job that can't get more than a few weeks off a year, and do it for decades. Musicians get a pass, I'll never understand that. They were still young men in 74. 6 months to a year tops of doing nothing, I could understand. Beyond that, no, not at all. They did not deserve their fate, but they certainly are partly to blame.

[polmico]

I agree, but I decided not to worry about who these songs sounded like. I listen to this as if it's a group I never heard before, and I find I like the songs. This should be simple enough to do, but I'm guilty of doing the opposite quite often.

I think you misinterpreted. It literally is not Emerson, Lake and Palmer.

Palmer is on it, though. That's for sure.

[Paulrus]

Sounds like a lot of excuses. The break they took was career suicide, really, incredibly stupid on their part if you ask me. Nearly a 3 year break at the peak of their popularity? And this was a time bands put an album out every year. And trends were changing much faster than they do today How freaking tired could they be from touring in 74? Compare that to people with a real job that can't get more than a few weeks off a year, and do it for decades. Musicians get a pass, I'll never understand that. They were still young men in 74. 6 months to a year tops of doing nothing, I could understand. Beyond that, no, not at all. They did not deserve their fate, but they certainly are partly to blame.

I agree, it would have been smart of them to put something out in '75, though I wonder if by the end of '74 if they weren't a little tired of each other. They seemed to be moving in different directions musically (not that they were all that cohesive in the beginning!) and I just sense that by the time they were done touring BSS they needed a long break from each other.

But I still cut them some slack considering what the three of them delivered over the previous 4 years. Yes and King Crimson had lineup changes to inject new energy into their systems, and Genesis weren't dealing with the same kind of global touring schedule yet. So yeah, I'd guess Greg, Keith and Carl were probably pretty well fried.

[Sputnik]

The 1974 BSS tour started on the heels of a very busy November/December 1973 tour. The 1974 lasted until September 18 and included an interlude in April/May in Europe, then back to the USA to finish up. So they were basically on the road for 11 months straight. There certainly were lighter months in there, but this was a very busy touring schedule and I'm sure the band was fried, not so much from the playing but from all the travel and the general challenges and demands of being on the road.

I think a break was in order, but I agree it probably lasted a bit too long. If they'd been able to regroup in order to put something out in 1976, they might have fared better, but it would have depended on them having the musical ideas to do a project, which I'm just not sure was the case.

It's been a while since I read Macan's book, but it was certainly during this break period that Lake started to seriously drift away from the band's direction toward a more "singer/songwriter" thing. He'd obviously had that strain in him all along, but it really came to the fore in this period and colored what ELP would do when they did re-convene. Whether those feelings started during the 1974 tour is an open question. My sense is that the band was never more cohesive than during the making of BSS and it is their most fully integrated work.

Whether the rigors of the road, or the time away from each other to pursue individual tastes, or both were to blame for the drifting apart musically, it did happen in this break period. And I don't think the band were ever able to rekindle the spirit of cooperation, or the intensity of work ethic they had in the BSS period.

Bill

[Man In The Mountain]

Yeah, a 2-3 year break is insane. Take 6 months off, tops. If you figure in that they should really love what they do, and be brimming with ideas in their youth, it makes no sense. When the guys talk about the old days touring, they never rag on it, it was all glory and incredible. Cal Jam was the best gig ever. It actually seems more like they wanted to break up after the BSS tour (for whatever reason), but called it a hiatus, and then regrouped with WORKS, making it mostly solo stuff, with a single band side. Then, that was it really.... until Love Beach, where they really tanked.

[infandous]

I didn't hear either Works album until the 90's (didn't hear ELP until then, for that matter.......aside from Lucky Man). Of course, I had gotten heavily into their earlier albums and loved them all. So both Works were pretty disappointing to me, even if both had a couple things I liked. I would be interested to hear Vol. 2 again though, as I only heard it a couple times (borrowed from a friend). I suspect now that I've moved on from my obsession with Tarkus and BSS (and have broadened my musical listening), I would find it more enjoyable.

As far as the hiatus after the '74 tour goes, it's no secret that Keith and Greg were at odds almost from the beginning. Like so much great rock music (prog or otherwise), some of the best music came from these tense relationships. There was no way it could have gone on much longer, from what I've read and seen in documentary footage. They just had very different ideas about musical direction. I just wish they could have realized that that was what made the band special. The combination of Keith's bombastic classical tendencies with Greg's singer/songwriter tendencies was what birthed their best music. Had their egos been kept even a little bit in check, I think things could have continued well for at least a couple more albums. As it is we got Works I and II instead (Love Beach was mainly a contractual obligation that none of them wanted to do.......though it actually didn't turn out as bad as what I'd been led to believe for so many years, aside from the cover and album title, of course).

[grego]

It wasn't just a holidays break - they actually split after '74 tour. Emerson once mentioned that in an interview, can't remember which one..The idea of Works also seems a contractual obligation, to make an album or two, tour or two, then producing Love Beach, and bye-bye.

[Jeremy Bender]

The 1974 BSS tour started on the heels of a very busy November/December 1973 tour. The 1974 lasted until September 18 and included an interlude in April/May in Europe, then back to the USA to finish up. So they were basically on the road for 11 months straight. There certainly were lighter months in there, but this was a very busy touring schedule and I'm sure the band was fried, not so much from the playing but from all the travel and the general challenges and demands of being on the road.

Well put, plus I'd add that the band and their entourage certainly weren't Buddhist monks when it came to drugs and alcohol and other rock star indulgences.

Whether the rigors of the road, or the time away from each other to pursue individual tastes, or both were to blame for the drifting apart musically, it did happen in this break period. And I don't think the band were ever able to rekindle the spirit of cooperation, or the intensity of work ethic they had in the BSS period.

One thing to keep in mind is that they'd been talking about doing a KISS-esque solo album thing almost from the time the band formed. Keith talked about doing an album of ragtime stuff, Greg with his singer/songwriter vibe and Carl doing a jazz album. That they managed to put out 5 great albums in 4 years and be one of the very best and most popular live acts during that time while not strangling each other is pretty amazing.

Cal Jam was the best gig ever.

Nah, I've never thought that, it's just that it's the only BSS tour show that was filmed, and without all the Giger lady curtains, video screen and the killer light show at that. Keith had Moog problems all night, for one thing, I think gigs like the 7/26/74 Buffalo gig, 5/24/74 Rotterdam and 8/17/74 Roosevelt Stadium shows are much better, and that's only the BSS tour.

It wasn't just a holidays break - they actually split after '74 tour. Emerson once mentioned that in an interview, can't remember which one...

I lost a lot of my ELP magazine clippings that I had in binders during a move in the 1990's, I seem to remember one of them hinted that Keith wanted to break up and become a jazz player and film composer and that he told Greg and Carl "My way or the highway" as a condition of continuing.

But ELP never did anything by half-measures, they're probably the best example there is of a band being incredibly popular and within a few years turning off most of the fan base.

[Mister Triscuits]

One thing to keep in mind is that they'd been talking about doing a KISS-esque solo album thing almost from the time the band formed.

I recall a blurb in the press sometime between Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery that all three would release solo albums; of course these never materialized.

[Brian Griffin]

Definitely better than I remember as well, some very good cuts

Need to revisit Vol 1 at some point this weekend

BG

[Rufus]

I recall a blurb in the press sometime between Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery that all three would release solo albums; of course these never materialized.

It did, they just put them on a double ELP album! Emerson began writing his concerto pre-BSS!

[cavgator]

But ELP never did anything by half-measures, they're probably the best example there is of a band being incredibly popular and within a few years turning off most of the fan base.

I'm not so sure about that, Jeremy. If you count the Works albums as a single unit, ELP had a great run from 1970-1978. Look at the other top prog bands of the era and there isn't a larger body of work AS A PROG BAND. I will go by albums that are certified Gold by the RIAA, according to Wikipedia.

ELP: S/T, Tarkus, Pictures At An Exhibition, Trilogy, Brain Salad Surgery, Works, Love Beach (half of it is good) = 7 albums

Pink Floyd: Ummagumma, Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, Obscured By Clouds, Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, Final Cut (more a Waters solo album) = 9 albums

Genesis: Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound, Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Trick of the Tail, Wind And Wuthering, And Then There Were Three, Duke (pop afterwards) = 7 albums

Yes: Fragile, Close To The Edge, Tales From The Topographic Oceans, Relayer, Going For The One, (TYA, Tormato and Drama never went Gold)(went pop afterwards) = 5 albums

Jethro Tull: Benefit, Aqualung, Thick As A Brick, A Passion Play, Minstrel In The Gallery, War Child, Songs From The Wood, Heavy Horses, Stormwatch = 9 albums

King Crimson: only record to go Gold was ITCotCK

Genesis, Yes, Crimson and Tull went in different directions to remain viable. When Waters left Floyd, Gilmour brought the rest of the band together, but an elemental part seemed missing. Sort like ELPowell and Drama (IMO). ELP was the only one that remained together to the end.