Best sounding Gabriel era Genesis cd's

[Fracktured]

Simple question. I know there's at least 4 or 5 different versions out there. Can you tell me about them?

Rick

[bill g]

You'll get different opinions on this. Personally, I like the Nick Davis 69-75 box. Some will disagree, and feel Nick uses too much compression, which is a fair assessment. Overall, I think the sound and levels are good though, not perfect, but I think Nick did a great job. His mixes are the only really good sounding cds for the first Tony Banks, and first two Anthony Phillips cds, in my opinion.

[jkleban]

Yes, Nick's mixes of Foxtrot and NC are better to me. Selling England was almost perfect to begin with so I prefer the Johnnie Burns version. When it comes to The Lamb, Nick ruined the mix (in my humble opinion) all the balls are mixed out. And alot of the special stuff done back in 74 by Johnnie were missed by Nick. I am also of the opinion that Genesis should have consulted Johnnie on the remixes... a collaboration between he and Nick would have been marvelous (if they didn't kill each other in the process).

Like Bill said,

Just one man's opinion.

Jim

[AncientChord]

Live at The Rainbow Theater 1973. Frickin' unbelievable recording, almost as if 6 year old Steven Wilson mixed it!

[happytheman]

I'd have to go back and look at my collection but the first Genesis CD I bought shortly after CD's were made available for the low low price of $18 (think 80's) was Trick of the Tail. Which I thought was wonderfully bright and hallelujah no pops, hisses or crackles! I then proceeded to fill out the collection as the years went on with whatever was available at the time. When the whole "re-issue" era came into being I jumped at the same release again just to get the famous concert with Bruford. I can't say I enjoyed that mixing of Trick as well as the original I bought so many years ago. A bit too "bright" for my liking, which is the number one reason I haven't gone out and bought the other releases. Afterall with YouTube you can pull up all of the video that was included on those releases i.e. interviews etc. so I just cannot justify the purchases. Maybe the others sound warmer I don't know.

[Fracktured]

the first Genesis CD I bought shortly after CD's were made available for the low low price of $18 (think 80's) was Trick of the Tail.

This may be the original release from virgin charisma CDSCD4001. I got 2 of the original releases but not Trick. Then I bought some of the first remasters before the definitive remasters came out. I like the orignal releases I have, but finding all of them is going to be hard to do and maybe expensive. So I thought maybe someone here has several of the versions out and could give me an opinion on the sound quality of each.

Rick

[JeffCarney]

I think a Google search would prove much more helpful. This stuff has been discussed ad nauseum, but basically there are just a LOT of different masterings as some of the early CDs were not always the same in different countries.

I'll give you a couple of easy ones that are generally agreed to be great and should be easy to find on Amazon (all should list 1990 as the date of production):

Lamb: Just get the 80s Atco. All worldwide masterings of this prior to the DE were basically the same.

Selling England: 80s Atlantic

Trick: 80s Atco

[Fracktured]

Thanks Jeff. You arfe always very helpful.

[ItalProgRules]

When the whole "re-issue" era came into being I jumped at the same release again just to get the famous concert with Bruford. I can't say I enjoyed that mixing of Trick as well as the original I bought so many years ago. A bit too "bright" for my liking, which is the number one reason I haven't gone out and bought the other releases.

I had the same experience with TRICK. Had to have it for the Broof concert (which is fantastic if frustratingly edited. I would LOVE to have had ALL of "Supper's Ready,) but I also was not happy with the sound of the actual album.

Glad I kept the old one as well.

[rickmoraz]

To add another question to all those in the know, I recently downloaded TLLDOB from Itunes. The product description mentions the date 2008; is this version then the same as the remastered version for the box sets 70-75. Comparing with the older version I had the improvement is startling, mostly in the higher frequencies, and a clearer definition (highlighting) of all instruments. I hear stuff that I had never heard before; this from someone who bought his first TLLDOB in 1974. I would have a similar question for SEBTP.

Ed

[JeffCarney]

To add another question to all those in the know, I recently downloaded TLLDOB from Itunes. The product description mentions the date 2008; is this version then the same as the remastered version for the box sets 70-75. Comparing with the older version I had the improvement is startling, mostly in the higher frequencies, and a clearer definition (highlighting) of all instruments. I hear stuff that I had never heard before; this from someone who bought his first TLLDOB in 1974. I would have a similar question for SEBTP.

Sounds like the new one as all the things you are citing as "improvements" are tell-tale signs of compression; a lot of which was used on the remixes.

I can't stand the sound of it, personally. I can just hear the overuse of that stuff and all the subtleties that made the original production so unique are just lost in some type of modern, Lady Gaga production rethink.

But then I'm not an itunes type listener, so I am probably just too "old school."

[Progatron]

I think the original mix of the Lamb was actually quite good as it was. It's pretty cool in 5.1 though, and so is Selling England. It was really the very early albums (T, NC, F) that stood the most to gain - and did, IMO. I have no use for the new stereo mixes of any of these, however. If I'm just listening to them (as opposed to sitting down with the 5.1 in front of the system for full effect), I prefer the mix I've known for so many years - I'm not one to nitpick too much over the actual mastering, but mixwise some of the changes are quite jarring when you know every second of the music like the back of your hand. One example I generally cite is in "Can-Utility" when PG sings "but he forced a smile even though his hopes lay dashed where offerings fellllll... where they felllllll...." in my mind trails off, but in the new mix what I hear is "where they fell!" - abrupt stop. Might seem miniscule to some, but it catches me off-guard every time. There are many others too - like I said, the 5.1 mixes are a lot of fun ("Cinema Show" is spectacular) and the novelty of them hasn't worn off for me yet, but as background music I notice those changes and I can't say I like them all.

If I had my way I'd go back in time to my nineteen-year-old (I think) self and tell him not to sell off those Virgin/Charisma editions with the badly cropped covers, because in my memory those were my favourites. Partying, a smoking habit and the general foolishness of youth caused me to sell many great CDs back in those days.

[Fracktured]

I don't want to knock the re-mixes, simply because I don't think I would care for having them. The number one reason is money. So if I never get them I don't want to say yea or nay to the mixes, whether they are good in anyone else's ears or not. I was mainly interested in just getting the best sounding original mixes of the albums. If I had the money I would probably buy the re-mixes just to hear the differences. I love the Gabriel era of Genesis as I remember it from when I purchased the vinyl back in the day. Of couse you could say just find the vinyl then, but that brings in a whole other issue which I don't care to deal with. With that said, I do appreciate all of the insight and the opinions. Thanks

Rick

[jkleban]

Progatron

No doubt, for those of us who have listened for years to the original mixes, some of the stuff in the new mixes is almost sacrilegious... but I also agree that you can hear things in the new mixes that were mixed deep in the original mixes and not quite as clear. As such, I use the new mixes (surround 5.1) as a much better guide to who and what is making the music, like a reference mix but from habit enjoy the original mixes much better.

I have decided to go RETRO in my music listening environment all the way back to VINYL and reel to reel. With reel HI FI speakers and power amps. TURN IT UP. I did add a disc player capable of playing SACDs, which aren't readily available hear in the states to tell if they truly live up to their vinyl siblings. MERRY CHRISTMAS to our family... the stuff is wrapped and put near the tree. Can't wait until Christmas morning to unwrap all this stuff and have a listening session holiday.

Jim