ReR USA?

[Steve F.]

I wasn't taking it personally....

GOOD! Wasn't sure!

[Phlakaton]

I don't know how large or small the group is that truly enjoy different and unique music is - but you have to admit this market has been very tiny for a long time. I could be very wrong about that I suppose. I am curious from the people here who really know like MJ and Steve - was it that much better back in say 1990? Could you live on the music you made 15 years ago without working a day job vs now?

[rcarlberg]

I mean that after 18 months, with few exceptions, we have sold 95% of what we are going to sell. So, when we run out, they are not coming back.

Question from a moron who really does not know. Granted that the above is true, which it undoubtedly is...

Isn't there the technology these days to do "one-offs", single or tiny runs on-demand since you already have the masters and the artwork? In other words, essentially when you offer downloads you are encouraging customers to do their own CD-Rs with their burners and color DeskJets. Couldn't YOU do that?

[Hobo Chang Ba]

This is a shame to read. I'm somewhat guilty of not using ReRUSA enough. Found some gems there that were/are (seemingly) unavailable elsewhere...glad to have 'em, and glad to have had ReRUSA in existence at some point. Thanks Dave!


And sigh to the rest of the thread. But oh well.

[Steve F.]

Isn't there the technology these days to do "one-offs", single or tiny runs on-demand since you already have the masters and the artwork? In other words, essentially when you offer downloads you are encouraging customers to do their own CD-Rs with their burners and color DeskJets. Couldn't YOU do that?

yes, the technology exists.

I could license them to amazon, b/c they offer a digital on demand service, but they do a really poor quality job of it, imo.

So, i do not want to do it that way.

We could do it ourselves, but since the demand is basically over for the physical items, why exactly am I spending my time to do this?? I'd rather just sell them digitally on BandCamp, and be looking / working forward, towards new releases, not backwards.

[chalkpie]

Really sorry to hear this Kermanator. You were one of two crazy bastards that agreed to sell my cardboard amanda album on that site. Pretty awesome of you (and Uncle Steve too - who now has dubbed me Sir Energy Vampire of the North ). Where's the vampire emoticon?

I hope the future brings you good tidings my friend. You are a huge influence on my listening over the past 10 years or so, especially introducing me to extreme metal and Lutoslawski, besides a ton of other shit. I will be forever indebted right there just for that stuff alone. What else do you truly need?

Will this be an opportunity for you to dive depper into more composing, recording, touring, etc?

This ones for you:

[chalkpie]

PS - "Slutmaker" is pretty much the best 3 minute tune I have ever heard. Strong words, right? That tune has the sickest riff-based grooves I think I've ever heard, and then it blasts into this very weird section that nearly melts the tune in half (the best are the zombies at about 1:48), but the groove they kick into at 1:55 is just unbelievable - its so FUCKING BAD ASS!

[rcarlberg]

PS - "Slutmaker" is pretty much the best 3 minute tune I have ever heard.

Okay, I give -- where's the tune?

[Udi Koomran]

mmm...
a lot of the people in our "community" who show sympathy and sorrow could have just made the difference by actually pull out their credit cards order
Lets face it we could all do more
and am I the only who feels we have passed the "Decline" phase ?
Look around at the quality and quantity of music released 2014 and compare
I think the fans could make the small difference but don't realize that if they don't all of this will be completely gone
Have any of you seen The recent "Getting Impatient: Any news on these bands??" thread ?
btw the Present recording sessions planed for July are cancelled

[jkelman]

mmm...
a lot of the people in our "community" who show sympathy and sorrow could have just made the difference by actually pull out their credit cards order
Lets face it we could all do more
and am I the only who feels we have passed the "Decline" phase ?
Look around at the quality and quantity of music released 2014 and compare
I think the fans could make the small difference but don't realize that if they don't all of this will be completely gone
Have any of you seen The recent "Getting Impatient: Any news on these bands??" thread ?
btw the Present recording sessions planed for July are cancelled

In my case, as you probably know Udi, you're preachin' to the choir .. And against a pretty strong backlash by some folks here who think everything will work out fine....

I'd love to think so, but this is just one example why not....

[jkelman]

So..., master Kermz, I take my "virtual hat" off and pay my solemn respects, as it were. It was a good effort.

Absolutely.

But one question: where have y'all been on the zeppekin reissue thread, where I've been struggling to make the points on thus thread for days?

Seriously, though, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who sees real consequences coming as the result of the confluence of streaming services, illegal downloading and those who seem to think being a professional musician isn't a job worthy of fair compensation, and that art and commerce cannot, for some reason, co-exist.

I'd not go so far as to say I'm happy to hear others feel the same way I do, but it is great to know that there are people out there who have both a conscience and the belief that we can make at least some difference by not supporting these services and by sending our money as much as possible to the artists and/or labels.

[Udi Koomran]

In my case, as you probably know Udi, you're oreachin' to the choir .. .

Not sure I understand

[Facelift]

Absolutely.

But one question: where have y'all been on the zeppekin reissue thread, where I've been struggling to make the points on thus thread for days?

Seriously, though, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who sees real consequences coming as the result of the confluence of streaming services, illegal downloading and those who seem to think being a professional musician isn't a job worthy of fair compensation, and that art and commerce cannot, for some reason, co-exist.

You appear to have misunderstood a bit of what I wrote on the other thread. For example, nowhere did I condone illegal downloading. Additionally, I did not say that the status quo could be maintained, in terms of the number of signed artists out there making music. The current realities definitely dictate that there will be less, as I spent at least a paragraph discussing. I fully expect things like this to happen. The idea that "if a few more people in here had bought albums this could have been avoided," though, is a pie in the sky fantasy, and very poor form on the part of whomever said it (I don't think it was you). The marketplace for physical CDs is irrevocably shrinking, the costs of music for the consumer are falling, and what the people in here do would not make much of a difference, in the grand scheme of things. The changes that have occurred, economically, are so much larger than what's going on in here. It's gone far beyond just "ripping albums," or whatever - technology has made it such that music isn't listened to as it once was. The time between 1995 and 2005 was probably my most favorite time as a music fan, as the internet opened my eyes and ears to so much more than I had previously been exposed to, and things were getting reissued left and right. I bought WAY more than I had any business doing, financially (I own over 5000 CDs and LPs and bought at least half of them new). Considering all I've spent through the years, I don't think it could reasonably be stated that I have anything to apologize for when I, by and large, drastically cut purchasing music from my budget about a year and a half ago. I have more albums than I could ever fully digest and other financial priorities. I also don't feel the need to apologize for using the local library and Youtube to satisfy my itches to stay on top of the latest releases from bands I was interested in, and to find out of they passed the threshold of something I really really *really* needed to buy. People have aged out of the rock music LP and CD market on a continual basis since the '70s. Labels aren't feeling the pinch because people like me are cutting back. The pinch is because they aren't being replaced. Instead of bemoaning people who have already given a lot, probably most of the ire - if there need be any at all - should be directed at the tens of millions younger music fans for whom the idea of buying a collection of music is a nearly foreign concept.

I'm not happy at all about what happened to ReR and what will likely happen to other progressive music enterprises in the near future. I'm not happy for the artists that this directly affects. I am not happy that I spent a ton of money on CDs during my lifetime that I won't ever even enjoy the pleasure of bequeathing to an appreciative relative, to say nothing of almost none of it having retained any value in the marketplace should I choose to sell the rest of it off.

But pleading for enough people to have listening and spending habits to prevent the inevitable is really like begging interested buyers of motorcars to re-consider horse-drawn carriages. We're in a new era. If you're inextricably tied to the old era, commercially, these are not good times.

[spacefreak]

I mean that after 18 months, with few exceptions, we have sold 95% of what we are going to sell. So, when we run out, they are not coming back.

And out of my personal experience, except for a very limited number of titles (2-3% of releases), it is impossible to have orders for additional copies that could justify potential repressings.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I mean that after 18 months, with few exceptions, we have sold 95% of what we are going to sell. So, when we run out, they are not coming back.

Seems that there's a shitload of "fairly recent" Cuneis I'll have to catch up on pretty damn soon, then.

[mellotron storm]

mmm...
a lot of the people in our "community" who show sympathy and sorrow could have just made the difference by actually pull out their credit cards order
Lets face it we could all do more
and am I the only who feels we have passed the "Decline" phase ?
Look around at the quality and quantity of music released 2014 and compare
I think the fans could make the small difference but don't realize that if they don't all of this will be completely gone
Have any of you seen The recent "Getting Impatient: Any news on these bands??" thread ?
btw the Present recording sessions planed for July are cancelled

That sucks about Present but hopefully they are just postponed?
I feel like I have faithfully supported the "little guys" over the years but must admit I think I only dealt with RER twice as Cuneiform and Synphonic have been my two main places to buy.
Some interesting posts here and it can get downright depressing reading how cds just aren't worth a lot as far as re-sale goes and no I don't have relatives who would want my music although my oldest daughter would take all my Porcupine Tree cds along with Muse, Radiohead and the like.
I'm just going to continue to enjoy my music and be very thankful for these on-line sites who have mean't so much to me over the years.

[rcarlberg]

Lets face it we could all do more

I think there are at least three factors involved here --

1) Yes, illegal downloads cut into some sales of some titles, but

2) The audience for our type of music is also aging and buying less and

3) The endless repackaging and remastering of albums from 40 years ago also cuts into the budget for new music.


Music and commerce are becoming decoupled. Good music will still be made, but maybe the musicians won't expect to make a living doing it, particularly with non-commercial music.

[Esoteric]

Thats a very good post and summarises it pretty well, just to mention one of the reasons though for the endless repackaging etc is partly because most new music in the non commercial sphere only sells in relatively small amounts--a bit of a chicken and egg situation really!!

I think there are at least three factors involved here --

1) Yes, illegal downloads cut into some sales of some titles, but

2) The audience for our type of music is also aging and buying less and

3) The endless repackaging and remastering of albums from 40 years ago also cuts into the budget for new music.


Music and commerce are becoming decoupled. Good music will still be made, but maybe the musicians won't expect to make a living doing it, particularly with non-commercial music.

[Plasmatopia]

I never once bought a CD and experienced any heartburn over what its resale value might be. I guess I'll never be rich.

[Just Eric]

You appear to have misunderstood a bit of what I wrote on the other thread. For example, nowhere did I condone illegal downloading. Additionally, I did not say that the status quo could be maintained, in terms of the number of signed artists out there making music. The current realities definitely dictate that there will be less, as I spent at least a paragraph discussing. I fully expect things like this to happen. The idea that "if a few more people in here had bought albums this could have been avoided," though, is a pie in the sky fantasy, and very poor form on the part of whomever said it (I don't think it was you). The marketplace for physical CDs is irrevocably shrinking, the costs of music for the consumer are falling, and what the people in here do would not make much of a difference, in the grand scheme of things. The changes that have occurred, economically, are so much larger than what's going on in here. It's gone far beyond just "ripping albums," or whatever - technology has made it such that music isn't listened to as it once was. The time between 1995 and 2005 was probably my most favorite time as a music fan, as the internet opened my eyes and ears to so much more than I had previously been exposed to, and things were getting reissued left and right. I bought WAY more than I had any business doing, financially (I own over 5000 CDs and LPs and bought at least half of them new). Considering all I've spent through the years, I don't think it could reasonably be stated that I have anything to apologize for when I, by and large, drastically cut purchasing music from my budget about a year and a half ago. I have more albums than I could ever fully digest and other financial priorities. I also don't feel the need to apologize for using the local library and Youtube to satisfy my itches to stay on top of the latest releases from bands I was interested in, and to find out of they passed the threshold of something I really really *really* needed to buy. People have aged out of the rock music LP and CD market on a continual basis since the '70s. Labels aren't feeling the pinch because people like me are cutting back. The pinch is because they aren't being replaced. Instead of bemoaning people who have already given a lot, probably most of the ire - if there need be any at all - should be directed at the tens of millions younger music fans for whom the idea of buying a collection of music is a nearly foreign concept.

I'm not happy at all about what happened to ReR and what will likely happen to other progressive music enterprises in the near future. I'm not happy for the artists that this directly affects. I am not happy that I spent a ton of money on CDs during my lifetime that I won't ever even enjoy the pleasure of bequeathing to an appreciative relative, to say nothing of almost none of it having retained any value in the marketplace should I choose to sell the rest of it off.

But pleading for enough people to have listening and spending habits to prevent the inevitable is really like begging interested buyers of motorcars to re-consider horse-drawn carriages. We're in a new era. If you're inextricably tied to the old era, commercially, these are not good times.

Best post on the subject I've seen on PE.

I am terribly saddened Dee-Kay for the loss of ReR USA and admire your honorable exit. You are my Metal Mentor and I am forever grateful that you showed me the light without too much proselytizing.

That being said, I too have had to nearly completely cut music out of my budget and need to satisfy my habit in other ways. Thankfully the entire landscape is changing and there are ways to legally enjoy music that do not require the investment of an arm and a leg, which I've more than donated during the past decade. I too am hope that many of the great musicians and those that support their work are able to adapt and continue with the avocation they love. Thankfully for me, much of the music I currently enjoy has adapted and appears to be stronger than ever.

[battema]

Slutmaker rules, Frankie. Still one of the most amazingly complex and uncompromising things I've ever had the pleasure of owning.

mmm...
a lot of the people in our "community" who show sympathy and sorrow could have just made the difference by actually pull out their credit cards order
Lets face it we could all do more
and am I the only who feels we have passed the "Decline" phase ?
Look around at the quality and quantity of music released 2014 and compare
I think the fans could make the small difference but don't realize that if they don't all of this will be completely gone
Have any of you seen The recent "Getting Impatient: Any news on these bands??" thread ?
btw the Present recording sessions planed for July are cancelled

Very sad to hear about the Present cancellation.

As for doing more...I buy hundreds of physical albums a year, mostly from smaller vendors (and directly from the artists/labels whenever possible). In rare "name your price" deals on stuff like Bandcamp, I up the price. When attending shows, if I even slightly like the artist I will drop coin for something on their merch table. Whenever possible I make weekly pilgrimages to my nearby independent vendors like CD Cellar and Soundgarden...and I never leave without at least something in hand. I buy fancier versions of releasees when practical, if only because I'm pretty sure they'll have a better margin than the bare-bones releases. Short of flat-out donating funds to my favorite musical causes, I honestly don't know what more I could do.

Cheers Dave...I'm sorry to hear that RERUsa is closing up shop. Props to you for trying to do the right thing, that can't be easy at all.

[Just Eric]

Slutmaker rules, Frankie.
When attending shows, if I even slightly like the artist I will drop coin for something on their merch table.

What John said, Gaza in general rulz!!
What little budget I have for music is spent exactly as John indicates above.

[Prehensile Pencil]

Re: Gaza - They are now called CULT LEADER, and their regrouped (bass player is now the singer) debut EP, 'Nothing For Us Here", is really, really good. 5 bucks from Bandcamp.

PRESENT: The recordings haven't been "cancelled"; merely postponed until sometime after Japan in November.

[Udi Koomran]

That being said, I too have had to nearly completely cut music out of my budget and need to satisfy my habit in other ways. Thankfully the entire landscape is changing and there are ways to legally enjoy music that do not require the investment of an arm and a leg, which I've more than donated during the past decade. I too am hope that many of the great musicians and those that support their work are able to adapt and continue with the avocation they love. Thankfully for me, much of the music I currently enjoy has adapted and appears to be stronger than ever.

Reading these lines ... what can i say this says it all ...

I see a light at the end of the channel we need to "adapt" and we will appear to be stronger then ever

oh I forgot the "terribly saddened Dee-Kay"

were is the bucket??

[trondis23]

Fortunately ReR UK is still up, and right now they offer most of their back catalog for merely £5 pr CD. I have only good experiences with them, and I have been with them since 1980.