AAJ Review: Yes, The Yes Album (Definitive Edition)

[jkelman]

Why should success in the US be the be all and end all of everything? Yes was a British band making headroads in the UK, so clearly this should be the definition of initial commercial success.

actually, I think success in both places was important (and a difference; witness Gentle Giant who did better pretty much everywhere else but their naive country.

Also, for better or worse, at that time breaking into the USA was almost always the goal of bands from abroad, and I would not underestimate its value in the case of Yes...or any other group from the time, for that matter. In terms of potential sales, at a time when a group playing this kind of music could actually sell multiple millions of copies, access to the burgeoning American market was key.

It no longer is that way, of course - access to the US is much more difficult and expensive, so there's an increasing number of significant artists who, more than capable of success in other places, have decided that, as you say, success in the US is, indeed, no longer the be all/end all. But back in the '70s it absolutely was - representing the difference between solid commercial success and a potentially much, much bigger audience.

[andypashley]

actually, I think success in both places was important (and a difference; witness Gentle Giant who did better pretty much everywhere else but their naive country.

Also, for better or worse, at that time breaking into the USA was almost always the goal of bands from abroad, and I would not underestimate its value in the case of Yes...or any other group from the time, for that matter. In terms of potential sales, at a time when a group playing this kind of music could actually sell multiple millions of copies, access to the burgeoning American market was key.

It no longer is that way, of course - access to the US is much more difficult and expensive, so there's an increasing number of significant artists who, more than capable of success in other places, have decided that, as you say, success in the US is, indeed, no longer the be all/end all. But back in the '70s it absolutely was - representing the difference between solid commercial success and a potentially much, much bigger audience.

I agree completely. Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly enough.

Really, I was talking about the timing of success - with the UK coming first. The insinuation had been that this was almost irrelevant and that success in the US was the sole arbiter or measure of a winning group.

[jkelman]

I agree completely. Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly enough.

Really, I was talking about the timing of success - with the UK coming first. The insinuation had been that this was almost irrelevant and that success in the US was the sole arbiter or measure of a winning group.

Thanks for clarifying. I'd absolutely never suggest that US success was the sole arbiter of success back in the day...though it certainly was a greater one compared to now, when its excessive work visa costs and 'buy american' mindset have actually gone the other way and rendered it rather irrelevant.

[ronmac]

4. So, you put forth the oh so original cliche that I should do instead of critiquing.

Shouldn't "oh so original" have hyphens to make reading easier? I'm not sure. But, since you're the expert...

Is my font large enough? Or should it be this big? or this big? or this big?

Sine we're looking for perfection, ya know.

BTW, punctuation at the end of the sentences in post #14 should be within the quotes. Unless you're from the UK, where they handle punctuation differently. But, since you're "from Philadelphia..."

[A. Scherze]

Just to be clear, I am totally ok with your weighing in...and I appreciate the fact that you offered positive, constructive criticism, and corrected me on a point that needed correcting. I absolutely never feel that my writing is so perfect that it can't withstand scrutiny. My only point is that I think we're naval-gazing on a relative minor point with respect to the order in which the information was provided. It still says what I wanted it to say after I added the "ultimately" to the sentence, and don't feel the other changes are so essential as to require additional editing.

But, again, I do appreciate your taking the time you have, and I hope you can acknowledge that by making at least one change, I took your constructive criticism seriously. We just disagree on the importance of taking it further, and imhope you can see now that falls int the "agree to disagree" category.

But I hope you are adopting the tone you have in the above post to folks who are criticizing you for critiquing my review, as I would certainly hope that I've been both open-minded and appreciative of your suggestions. That does not, however, mean I have to agree with all of them.

I think we've beaten this ol' horse to death at this point, so hopefully we can move on. I never view my writing as perfect, but I do think we're quibbling over a point that is not that key to the overall thrust of the review, which is why I decided to leave it with one correction made (with thanks) and left it at that,

Best,
John

John:

Please, be assured that nothing in my quote was directed at you.

[A. Scherze]

I know..I said [sic] because while whet is, indeed, a word, I don't believe whetter is

While I would like to take credit for it, I cannot.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whetter

whetter (plural whetters)


Something that whets. Agent noun of whet

[A. Scherze]

Shouldn't "oh so original" have hyphens to make reading easier? I'm not sure. But, since you're the expert...l

I actually did consider using hyphens, but I wasn't sure and didn't feel like researching it.
Besides, they struck me as pretentious, so I opted for simplicity.

Is my font large enough? Or should it be this big? or this big? or this big?

Wow! That "observation" has been made so many times, IT should be certified platinum.



You, on the other hand, should just be certified.

[ronmac]

Besides, they struck me as pretentious

That's the only thing that struck you as pretentious?

[A. Scherze]

Really, I was talking about the timing of success - with the UK coming first.

That was also my point.

Why should success in the US be the be all and end all of everything? Yes was a British band making headroads in the UK, so clearly this should be the definition of initial commercial success.

The insinuation had been that this was almost irrelevant and that success in the US was the sole arbiter or measure of a winning group.

I would have not have focused on the US numbers. I was just trying to put JK's point in a more cogent sequence.

(To John: beating a dead horse. "Certified platinum" and "selling a million copies" are basically the same thing. Putting them in the same sentence is redundant. And repetitious. )

[Poisoned Youth]

Everyone, let's just dial it back a little. Other than invoking "Godwin", picking on spelling and grammar is the dregs of internet culture discussion. I'd hate to close the thread.

[ronmac]

Sure, Cozy.

Didn't the certifications change at one point? If I'm not mistaken, I believe Gold was originally one million units and then changed to 500,000, when Platinum replaced Gold as a million units.

Something like that.

[A. Scherze]

I get the same thing with my design work. If you can do better yourself, then go ahead and do it and see how easy it isn't.

As a musician, but not an instrument designer, I cannot point out flawed design? As a consumer of food, but not a chef, should I hold my tongue and not complain when something does not taste right?

--

As a schoolboy, I, like most of us here, wrote many reports, essays, term papers, and book reviews. Didn't you? And, my teachers didn't slap on a gold star just for handing them in.

Later, in college, I took courses in TV production, where I wrote material for documentaries, commercials, interview shows, news programs, and comedy sketches.

The bottom line is that I don't like writing album reviews, so I don't.

[ronmac]

As a musician, but not an instrument designer, I cannot point out flawed design?

Well, I'm not referring to mechanical design. If a product is defective, that's another issue altogether. I'm referring to graphic design, where those who don't know anything about it look at it as though every decision behind it is purely arbitrary, which couldn't be further from the truth. They're often the first to pick it apart. But, put a pencil in their hand and their incapabilities clearly show.

As a consumer of food, but not a chef, should I hold my tongue and not complain when something does not taste right?

Of course not. But do you go into the kitchen and take over the chef's spice rack and tell him what to use? Or do you simply eat elsewhere?

Don't worry folks, I'm done with this senseless bickering.

[jkelman]

While I would like to take credit for it, I cannot.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whetter

whetter (plural whetters)


Something that whets. Agent noun of whet

So it is, then. I use Merriam-Webster online, the subscription version (hey, every writer needs a good dictionary/thesaurus at his/her disposal!)....

Color me corrected!!

[jkelman]

(To John: beating a dead horse. "Certified platinum" and "selling a million copies" are basically the same thing. Putting them in the same sentence is redundant. And repetitious. )
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Actually, I struggled with that one because, since platinum sales are rarer these days, a whole generation of youngsters doesn't know what it means (I've run into 'em), so I included both quite intentionally. Sometimes you have to write knowing who your audience is, and surprisingly, All About Jazz's readership is spread quite evenly across most demographics. When I write for All About Jazz I have to straddle the line between writing for folks who know next to nothing but have interest, to folk who know a heckuva lot more than I (and, of course, also have interest). Something to consider before you continue to pick nits

I am not just writing for folks at PE, who largely know these things because they're generally music geeks, too. So just a point to demonstrate that sometimes there are reasons for doing things that, on the surface, might not seem to be the right idea

So....are we done now?

[A. Scherze]

I can dig it. Concepts have to be weighed and balanced against one another, and trade-offs made.

Before we bid adieu to this topic, let me indulge in some cliches. "The Devil is in the details." And, what seems like picayune nit-picking to one person stands out like sore thumb to someone else.

BTW, I re-read the article and just want to say that I do enjoy your writing style.

[A. Scherze]

Well, I'm not referring to mechanical design. If a product is defective, that's another issue altogether. I'm referring to graphic design, where those who don't know anything about it look at it as though every decision behind it is purely arbitrary, which couldn't be further from the truth. They're often the first to pick it apart. But, put a pencil in their hand and their incapabilities clearly show.

Well ... that is il rovescio della medaglia.

[jkelman]

I can dig it. Concepts have to be weighed and balanced against one another, and trade-offs made.

Before we bid adieu to this topic, let me indulge in some cliches. "The Devil is in the details." And, what seems like picayune nit-picking to one person stands out like sore thumb to someone else.

I know. I was managing editor at AAJ for 7 years. Boy, do I know But what is important is differentiating between "hard" errors and the softer stuff that comes down to personal preference...though I will say that if one person misinterprets something, then it's highly likely others will too, so it's not as if I don't hear what you're saying, again, to be clear.

BTW, I re-read the article and just want to say that I do enjoy your writing style.

Thanks, after all this, it's kind of you to say

[trurl]

I don't know about the review or the album, but this thread sucks.

[jkelman]

I don't know about the review or the album, but this thread sucks.

I agree, and it sure wasn't what I had in mind when I started it

[trurl]

Actually, just kidding- I thought the review was great and I have the album and I really (mostly) like what SW did with it, as opposed to the Tull remixes.

[A. Scherze]

I don't know about the review or the album, but this thread sucks.

Lucky I didn't say anything about the dirty knife.

[Tim35]

Most of us like to read jkelman reviews. They are straight forward and easy to understand. What we don't like is someone being too critical and highjacking the thread with stupidity. Every time we get rid of a troll around here another one shows up.
Trolls,
please stay away.
This is just my opinion.

[Mister Triscuits]

Lucky I didn't say anything about the dirty knife.

[A. Scherze]

They are straight forward and easy to understand.

But, don't you care if they are factually incorrect? Haven't you heard the saying, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."? (<-ronmac)

What we don't like is someone being too critical ...

"We"? You presume to speak for everyone? Are you the arbiter of what is too critical? How do you determine that?

This is just my opinion.

The statement was inaccurate and improperly stated. But, that's just MY opinion.