A Look Back at The Doors after I've matured...

[Stickleback]

Well said Jeremy. The Doors are one of my favorites too. Break On Through: the first track on the first album. What a statement! Also love American Prayer.

[ronmac]

I ws thinking, some bands start off tentatively, reach a creative peak and then slip back to safety/mediocrity. The Doors were the opposite - a stunning debut, gradual descent to the nadir of The Soft Parade and then climbing back via Morrison Hotel to a superb finale with LA Woman (assuming you ignore the post-Jim albums).

Well said Jeremy. The Doors are one of my favorites too. Break On Through: the first track on the first album. What a statement! Also love American Prayer.

I was just going to post the same thing about "Break on Through"! I cannot think of a better or more fitting opening track of a debut, even if the word "high" was edited out.

"American Prayer" is a great example of a posthumous release.

[SteveSly]

"American Prayer" is a great example of a posthumous release.

"American Prayer" is actually where I first discovered them. I had heard a few hits, but a buddy of mine had "American Prayer" which really opened up what The Doors were all about to me. I then went exploring into their catalouge.

[jkelman]

[I think the Doors were great and although they may not have been 'prog', they certainly were 'progressive'.]

It's funny you should mention that. I mentioned to a jazz musician, recently, something about most books that have been written about progressive rock. I prefaced it with "does this sound familiar?" and said that too many of them were written with the premise the progressive rock began in Britain and is a distinctly British musical form."

He didn't get it

But seriously, music doesn't emerge in a vacuum, and I've long operated with the sense that while progressive rock is thought to have emerged in the UK (and, to a large extent, that may be true), to write off bands that weren't from the UK - like the Doors, but a number of other bands that were "progressive" in the true sense of the word rather than fitting a stylistic description that has, over the years, both fractured into countless sub-genres and, at the same time, cemented into a definition that not only pigeonholes many modern bands, but actually makes them anything *but* progressive (again, from the dictionary definition and from what, I believe, was the original meaning of the music, too, that it progress, move forward, be different in some way, shape or form) - is not just unfair, it's just plain wrong.

Of course then we have to get into the definition of prog, and where it intersects, especially in the early days, with psychedelia and, a little later, electronics/Kraut rock and even improvised music (Henry Cow is, to my mind, as progressive as it gets, and some of its rigorous compositions fit a broader definition of prog....but all the free improv does not or, at least doesn't seem to). But the foundational premise that prog is a UK concocotion is something that, I think, could stand being revisited. While some were absolutely taking a top from their British colleagues, there were other bands, in other countries - like the Doors, for one big example - that truly did stand to be considered as progressive, IMO.

And while I think it's impossible not to link the Moody Blues with prog, if for no other reason than their working with an orchestra on Days of Future Passed and On the Threshold of a Dream - which, beyond the mellotron, did dabble with suite-like forms, amongst other things, even though at their heart they were largely a rock and pop band with folk and psych leanings (still, that was Lodge & Hayward; songs like "Dear Diary," I think, still fit within the progressive definition just as "I Talk to the Wind" does, both bringing in elements of jazz and orchestration into the mix) - if they can be considered prog then so should The Doors. And while "Light My Fire" was severely edited for radio, the album version, if I recall correctly, was also very popular on the emerging FM stations at the time. Certainly I never owned the record but remember hearing the full version back in the day, so the only place I can imagine hearing it would have been FM radio, but maybe not at the time it was released).

Anyway, fun stuff to think about, and for which there really is no clear answer - and that's what makes it so fun!

[Paulrus]

One of my earliest memory of listening to music of any kind was as a kid walking through a shopping mall in the early 70s and "Riders on the Storm" was playing on the PA. For some reason that song really cut through to my nascent desire for music with an imagination.

Interestingly enough the next time The Doors became a hot item was 1982 when I was a senior in high school down in the OC. I think maybe cuz Tom Petty professed an admiration for them, but there was nothing else in the zeitgeist of the times that explained it. But as an LA band they were played pretty much continuously on LA radio.

The thing that makes The Doors small-p progressive for me was that they rarely did anything that was "safe". They could EASILY have cranked out salable blues-based pop rock and cashed in on Jim's charisma (and controversy), but they always seemed to be more interested in taking the path less traveled. In some ways they were the LA counterpart to the Velvet Underground.

I like songs from their entire career, from "Light My Fire" to "LA Woman", though other than the debut their albums haven't really held my interest all the way through. Plus they're a victim of over-saturation to some extent. But a very important band and one I'm happy to consider as progressive. Or maybe ur-progressive.

[Jeremy Bender]

(assuming you ignore the post-Jim albums)

I think most people do!

One rumor going around was that Iggy Pop was going to replace Jim. Luckily that never happened, which made getting Ian Astbury of The Cult in and touring as The Doors a sad sight. Luckily, John Densmore put a stop to that (it was The Doors Of The 21st Century after that). Densmore also vetoes any and all offers for use of their music in commercials, which is leaving millions on the table.

[Mister Triscuits]

Interestingly enough the next time The Doors became a hot item was 1982 when I was a senior in high school down in the OC.

When I saw the Rolling Stones around that time (actually 1981), the sound system playing "Hello, I Love You" during a break got a bigger rise out of the crowd than the opening acts, George Thorogood and J. Geils Band, managed.

[Digital_Man]

It's funny you should mention that. I mentioned to a jazz musician, recently, something about most books that have been written about progressive rock. I prefaced it with "does this sound familiar?" and said that too many of them were written with the premise the progressive rock began in Britain and is a distinctly British musical form."

He didn't get it

But seriously, music doesn't emerge in a vacuum, and I've long operated with the sense that while progressive rock is thought to have emerged in the UK (and, to a large extent, that may be true), to write off bands that weren't from the UK - like the Doors, but a number of other bands that were "progressive" in the true sense of the word rather than fitting a stylistic description that has, over the years, both fractured into countless sub-genres and, at the same time, cemented into a definition that not only pigeonholes many modern bands, but actually makes them anything *but* progressive (again, from the dictionary definition and from what, I believe, was the original meaning of the music, too, that it progress, move forward, be different in some way, shape or form) - is not just unfair, it's just plain wrong.

Of course then we have to get into the definition of prog, and where it intersects, especially in the early days, with psychedelia and, a little later, electronics/Kraut rock and even improvised music (Henry Cow is, to my mind, as progressive as it gets, and some of its rigorous compositions fit a broader definition of prog....but all the free improv does not or, at least doesn't seem to). But the foundational premise that prog is a UK concocotion is something that, I think, could stand being revisited. While some were absolutely taking a top from their British colleagues, there were other bands, in other countries - like the Doors, for one big example - that truly did stand to be considered as progressive, IMO.

And while I think it's impossible not to link the Moody Blues with prog, if for no other reason than their working with an orchestra on Days of Future Passed and On the Threshold of a Dream - which, beyond the mellotron, did dabble with suite-like forms, amongst other things, even though at their heart they were largely a rock and pop band with folk and psych leanings (still, that was Lodge & Hayward; songs like "Dear Diary," I think, still fit within the progressive definition just as "I Talk to the Wind" does, both bringing in elements of jazz and orchestration into the mix) - if they can be considered prog then so should The Doors. And while "Light My Fire" was severely edited for radio, the album version, if I recall correctly, was also very popular on the emerging FM stations at the time. Certainly I never owned the record but remember hearing the full version back in the day, so the only place I can imagine hearing it would have been FM radio, but maybe not at the time it was released).

Anyway, fun stuff to think about, and for which there really is no clear answer - and that's what makes it so fun!

As a movement prog might have officially begun in the UK but I personally consider Frank Zappa to be the father of prog or at least progressive rock. I know there were others from the US but for me Frank and MOI stand out as being as envelope pushing as anything from the UK at the time. I think there's a tendency to think of progressive rock as something that has to be symphonic sounding or something though(at least initially). Oh well.

[bob_32_116]

When I saw the Rolling Stones around that time (actually 1981), the sound system playing "Hello, I Love You" during a break got a bigger rise out of the crowd than the opening acts, George Thorogood and J. Geils Band, managed.

Apropos of nothing in particular, "Hello I Love You" is VERY like early Kinks, especially "All Day and All the Night."Which simply says how original the Kinks were.

[revporl]

Some of the more commercial hits still stand up, but the attempts at being "Experimental" are really embarrassing to listen to now I think. Jim Morrison was, well, maybe acceptable in the 60's. That's the best I can say.

[Paulrus]

As a movement prog might have officially begun in the UK but I personally consider Frank Zappa to be the father of prog or at least progressive rock. I know there were others from the US but for me Frank and MOI stand out as being as envelope pushing as anything from the UK at the time. I think there's a tendency to think of progressive rock as something that has to be symphonic sounding or something though(at least initially). Oh well.

It's been widely held that progressive rock grew out of the psychedelic scene on both sides of the Atlantic. It's probably valid to say that movement happened in the US first (circa '65-'66) and was picked up in the UK soon after. By 1967 it was in full flower and experimentation in pop music was rampant, again on both sides of the pond.

But if you look at how that all played out, for some reason the psych music scene in the UK transmorgified into what we know as Prog Rock whereas in the US it sort of fizzled out and a lot of the proto-prog practitioners became folkies or blues-rockers.

So yes, one can trace the origins of Prog back to early psych music in the US, but it's mainly in the UK and Europe that it evolved into what we recognize today (exceptions duly noted, of course).

[ronmac]

So yes, one can trace the origins of Prog back to early psych music in the US, but it's mainly in the UK and Europe that it evolved into what we recognize today (exceptions duly noted, of course).

I think it traces back to classical music. That's where the form started. Contemporary bands simply electrified it. In fact, what many consider the first mainstream prog song (Strawberry Fields Forever) was bolstered by the classical elements of George Martin's orchestration.

[jkelman]

As a movement prog might have officially begun in the UK but I personally consider Frank Zappa to be the father of prog or at least progressive rock. I know there were others from the US but for me Frank and MOI stand out as being as envelope pushing as anything from the UK at the time. I think there's a tendency to think of progressive rock as something that has to be symphonic sounding or something though(at least initially). Oh well.

I would agree with you on that completely. Sorry, I should have mentioned that on my previous post as that's probably the most obvious example of progressive music emerging elsewhere...if not before (that might be argued) then, at the very least concurrent to what was going on in the UK.

[zombywoof]

As a movement prog might have officially begun in the UK but I personally consider Frank Zappa to be the father of prog or at least progressive rock. I know there were others from the US but for me Frank and MOI stand out as being as envelope pushing as anything from the UK at the time. I think there's a tendency to think of progressive rock as something that has to be symphonic sounding or something though(at least initially). Oh well.

[gpeccary]

^^^

But back to the Doors, I've been listening to them the past couple of days, (as i said earlier, was a HUGE fan as a kid,) and I have to say Morrison, for all his flaws, was an AMAZING vocalist. An absolutely dynamic personality, crazy magnetism and stage presence, aside from the madness he later created, and I really don't care WHAT he was singing, the guy had some of the most raw emotive vocals I've ever heard. And who in rock at that time could top him? He was the shit!!

[Harbottle]

It's been widely held that progressive rock grew out of the psychedelic scene on both sides of the Atlantic. It's probably valid to say that movement happened in the US first (circa '65-'66) and was picked up in the UK soon after. By 1967 it was in full flower and experimentation in pop music was rampant, again on both sides of the pond.

But if you look at how that all played out, for some reason the psych music scene in the UK transmorgified into what we know as Prog Rock whereas in the US it sort of fizzled out and a lot of the proto-prog practitioners became folkies or blues-rockers.

So yes, one can trace the origins of Prog back to early psych music in the US, but it's mainly in the UK and Europe that it evolved into what we recognize today (exceptions duly noted, of course).

Jazz was a big influence as was classical music - in the post war years jazz records were imported from the US and groups toured a lot in the UK when certain restrictions were lifted (Bands like the MJQ seemed to do a lot of touring here). People growing up in the 1950s and 1960s had access to a lot more music than before and kids who formed most of the prog bands probably grew up with parents buying this stuff. The Canterbury bands especially incorporated jazz (As did Tull, who came from a Jazz/blues background until Ian Anderson took over) and the influence of British school hymn singing has been touched upon in various books, not to mention the symphonic interests of acts like the Moody Blues & King Crimson. You can even consider the influence of British comedy acts like the Goons and Monty Python. Oh, and the Bonzo Dog Band.

These influences are maybe why it didn't fizzle out in the UK.

I've always struggled with US prog bands as they seem to lack much of what I like about the UK ones - I picked up a few Kansas CDs and some Starcastle, but that's about it. I prefer to listen to The Residents or the Art Ensemble of Chicago. And of course, things like Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Zappa, Beefheart... I don't really think 'Prog' as we know it could have started anywhere but the UK due to the coming together of various factors. Which is probably why YES keep making Intergalactic Turds and 'new' prog bands just sound (To me) like watered down rock bands with extra twiddly bits.

[WytchCrypt]

I've always struggled with US prog bands as they seem to lack much of what I like about the UK ones - I picked up a few Kansas CDs and some Starcastle, but that's about it. I prefer to listen to The Residents or the Art Ensemble of Chicago. And of course, things like Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Zappa, Beefheart...

There are actually a few little known US prog bands that released 1 or 2 albums in the mid to late 70's that deliver much of what made the UK bands special without being totally derivative (at least to me anyway) but you have to go searching for them. Mirthrandir, Ethos, Cathedral, Pentwater, Netherworld, Babylon, & Fireballet are the first that come to mind

[mogrooves]

for some reason the psych music scene in the UK transmorgified into what we know as Prog.

Piano lessons.

[cavgator]

As a kid, I loved the Doors (saw them in Florida), but as I got older, I found myself seeing through Morrisson's little mystique act. Pretty much everything he said about himself was fabricated. But as far as the music is concerned, I think it was some of the most creative, unique music of the day. The were VERY prog in the respect that they were unafraid to experiment with different approaches. The Celebration Of The Lizard suite on the Absolutely Live album is as proggy as anything else I own. I would have loved to have a good live version of The End, but Jim ruins it in the middle by, well, by being Jim (it's all about me!!!). The original version is matchless. And I loved Jim's VOICE. One of the greatest vocalists in the genre. How many people tried to emulate that rich baritone?

[happytheman]

I would have loved to have a good live version of The End, but Jim ruins it in the middle by, well, by being Jim (it's all about me!!!). The original version is matchless. And I loved Jim's VOICE. One of the greatest vocalists in the genre. How many people tried to emulate that rich baritone?

Yeah I agree.. he does that with Light my Fire on another live release...

[ronmac]

^^^

But back to the Doors, I've been listening to them the past couple of days, (as i said earlier, was a HUGE fan as a kid,) and I have to say Morrison, for all his flaws, was an AMAZING vocalist. An absolutely dynamic personality, crazy magnetism and stage presence, aside from the madness he later created, and I really don't care WHAT he was singing, the guy had some of the most raw emotive vocals I've ever heard. And who in rock at that time could top him? He was the shit!!

+1

[JKL2000]

For some radon, all the Doors songs I hear on Sirius XM are a few of the obvious pop hits (which are good but enough already) and some crappy later songs. I know there's better stuff in there (I like The End) but I never hear it.

[Frumious B]

"I followed you from the beach?"
"Why?"
"You're the one."

[zombywoof]

For some radon, all the Doors songs I hear on Sirius XM are a few of the obvious pop hits (which are good but enough already) and some crappy later songs. I know there's better stuff in there (I like The End) but I never hear it.

This was always a favorite of mine -

[bob_32_116]

Piano lessons.

I think prog was there well before Porcupine Tree recorded Piano Lessons.