Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 51

Thread: Rock Hallof Fame CEO is questioned

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Burlington Twp, NJ
    Posts
    2,284

    Rock Hallof Fame CEO is questioned

    Joel Peresman, the CEO and President of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, was interviewed recently and was asked some point-blank questions. Kudos to someone finally posing these to him, but his responses aren't real satisfying - he often responds as if he is just a bystander. Would love to see a list of these so-called scholars:

    Full interview here: http://radio.com/2014/05/29/intervie...man-president/


    Some of the highlights:

    Let me ask about the Chad Channing/Nirvana controversy. He played on the band’s debut album, Bleach. Many fans see that album as a classic on par with Nevermind or In Utero. Why wasn’t he inducted with the rest of the group?

    Peresman: Whether it’s KISS or whether it’s Nirvana, or any other act, there’s people on the nominating committee who nominate the act, and there’s also people that we go to who are scholars and who know that genre of music. And when you go to them and you say why is this band being inducted and who should be inducted [from the band’s lineups] and who are the artists who made this band what it was, it was really just the three guys who were inducted for Nirvana. And the same thing with KISS. It was the original four. Granted, they had other people play with their band, they’ve had big success with tours, but there’s a reason they got inducted and the reason is, those four guys.

    In a different year when you didn’t have Gene and Paul complaining so loudly about which members are inducted, do you think Chad Channing would have gotten in?

    Peresman: No, I don’t think so. This isn’t an exact science. But you really have to go to the people you trust who have strong opinions, and are very deep and knowledgable on certain genres of music, whether it’s Nirvana or KISS or the Paul Butterfield Blues Band. You have to go with people who know the subject matter and you get those opinions and you make those decisions. It’s not going to always please everybody all the time, but it’s as “right” as we can be.

    I get into debates with people about this kind of thing all the time.

    Peresman: I get into debates about this all the time! I tell people what I do [for a living], and then they say, “Well, how come this one isn’t inducted?” The thing is, nobody’s wrong. There’s no wrong opinion. Like, “Why isn’t Chicago inducted?” Or “Why isn’t the Moody Blues inducted?” Or “Why hasn’t Jane’s Addiction been inducted?” People aren’t wrong. I don’t really have a good answer for them.

    One nice surprise was Gene Simmons’ speech; it was surprisingly gracious.

    Peresman: It was a lovely speech, it was actually kind of classy, as opposed to Paul [Stanley]’s. That speech was the best advertisement for [pointing out that] what we did was right. He’s been almost borderline racist, not in that speech, but in other interviews talking about how hip-hop artists shouldn’t be inducted because they don’t play instruments. It’s like, “What are you, kidding?” And he talks about the nominating committee, and how those guys don’t buy records. Those guys buy records! They’re f—ing fans! Those guys are writers and critics and musicians. Those are the people who buy records and got into the business because they love music.

    These type of arguments keep people interested.

    Peresman: If anything, it keeps the passion going. People get so pissed off when someone doesn’t get inducted but it’s never a closed door. We never say you’ll never be inducted.

    When KISS said they wouldn’t perform, was there any thought of doing a KISS tribute with other artists?

    Peresman: No.

    One genre that seems to be overlooked is the post-punk era: British bands like the Cure, the Smiths and Joy Division and American groups like the Replacements and Sonic Youth. Do you see them getting in soon?

    Peresman: Some of the acts have been nominated. The Cure has been nominated, the Replacements were nominated this year. Unquestionably, some of these acts are going to get in.

    I read that Questlove and Tom Morello are now both on the nominating committee. Is that a new development?

    Peresman: Correct, as of last year.


    Are they charged with advocating for artists of their generation?


    Peresman: Not necessarily: Tom Morello was a big advocate of KISS. That wasn’t his generation, it was something that influenced him. That’s what you look for on the committee, you look for people that are open-minded, and who have a love a certain genre, but who are open to all kinds of ideas.

    Why do you think that no p0st-punk acts have been inducted yet?

    Peresman: They haven’t gotten enough votes, is the simple answer. I don’t have a quantification why they haven’t gotten enough votes.

    You sit on the nominating committee, but you’re not a voter. Are there artists who you want to see get in?

    Peresman: There’s so many bands that I like that aren’t in yet, I’ll stay neutral there. But people ask me all the time, if a certain artist is going to get in. I don’t know! There’s not necessarily a rhyme or reason why a certain artist gets traction with the nominating committee one year, and not another year.

    What was your first nominating committee meeting like?

    Peresman: It was interesting! People may bring up certain acts and you roll your eyes and say, “What are you, kidding?” But then they back it up, and explain why that act should be inducted. “This is their influence, this artist covered their songs,” I find it very educational, frankly.

  2. #2
    This clown is the CEO??!! I've never seen an interview with a so-called CEO who had so little to say. Does he take responsibility for anything?
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    This clown is the CEO??!! I've never seen an interview with a so-called CEO who had so little to say. Does he take responsibility for anything?
    ...sounds like most politicians to me....One in particular...

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic Scientist View Post
    ...sounds like most politicians to me....One in particular...
    Oh, please share, if you're going to go there.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Oh, please share, if you're going to go there.
    You know the rules: No politics but please accept my offer to join the YDNBT group for more political jousting...

  6. #6
    No thanks. I'm not looking for non-constructive arguments. It's usually an exercise in futility.

    But, it's okay; you can open the door an then back-pedal.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    0
    Peresman: It was a lovely speech, it was actually kind of classy, as opposed to Paul [Stanley]’s. That speech was the best advertisement for [pointing out that] what we did was right. He’s been almost borderline racist, not in that speech, but in other interviews talking about how hip-hop artists shouldn’t be inducted because they don’t play instruments. It’s like, “What are you, kidding?”



    Wow! I guess not playing instruments is unique for black musicians? How can that be even a light year of being "borderline racist?" Simmons was expressing an opinion about the relative musicianship of the artists, very much like others at the RRHoF discuss the exclusion of a certain genre because they do not adhere to the blues base of traditional rock, not record songs of 3 minutes or less, or write songs that do not have a simple 4/4 beat with verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus...

  8. #8
    Member paythesnuka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by cavgator View Post
    Peresman: It was a lovely speech, it was actually kind of classy, as opposed to Paul [Stanley]’s. That speech was the best advertisement for [pointing out that] what we did was right. He’s been almost borderline racist, not in that speech, but in other interviews talking about how hip-hop artists shouldn’t be inducted because they don’t play instruments. It’s like, “What are you, kidding?”



    Wow! I guess not playing instruments is unique for black musicians? How can that be even a light year of being "borderline racist?" Simmons was expressing an opinion about the relative musicianship of the artists, very much like others at the RRHoF discuss the exclusion of a certain genre because they do not adhere to the blues base of traditional rock, not record songs of 3 minutes or less, or write songs that do not have a simple 4/4 beat with verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus...
    I went looking for other comments by Gene about the hip-hop artists in the Hall of Fame and couldn't find anything that could be considered "borderline racist." It's a shame these days that if you say ANYTHING negative about a minority, the "racist card" is played. Pretty soon, an off-hand comment like "I hated the dress Beyonce wore at the MTV Music Awards" will be considered borderline racist.
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and... clever" -- David St. Hubbins & Derek Smalls, Spinal Tap

  9. #9
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  10. #10
    Member mnprogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,205
    I wish someone would ask:

    1) When are they going to change the number of NOMINEES and INDUCTEES to 20 NOMINEES and 10 INDUCTEES every year? Purely for the benefit of being able to induct more artists who with each passing year and more and more artists becoming eligible, makes it more difficult for them to even get nominated and thus inducted as well.

    2) Along those lines, why can't a "Veterans Committee" be setup for artists that have been eligible for X number of years

    3) The FAN vote is only worth 1 out of 600+ votes for Induction. What are the odds that increases even to the point the Fans vote for say 20 or 25% and if not, WHY NOT?
    Last edited by mnprogger; 06-04-2014 at 05:46 PM.

  11. #11
    I find it funny that he calls a comment racist that is only pointing out a simple fact. Sorry if some of us are confused about HUGE amounts of overlooked artists in the rock genre being crowded out by RAP artists. It is called the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, not the Rock, Pop and Rap hall of fame. Rap is all well and good, but give it it's own home or change the name of the hall.

  12. #12
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Durham NC
    Posts
    900
    Quote Originally Posted by cavgator View Post
    Peresman: It was a lovely speech, it was actually kind of classy, as opposed to Paul [Stanley]’s. That speech was the best advertisement for [pointing out that] what we did was right. He’s been almost borderline racist, not in that speech, but in other interviews talking about how hip-hop artists shouldn’t be inducted because they don’t play instruments. It’s like, “What are you, kidding?”



    Wow! I guess not playing instruments is unique for black musicians? How can that be even a light year of being "borderline racist?" Simmons was expressing an opinion about the relative musicianship of the artists, very much like others at the RRHoF discuss the exclusion of a certain genre because they do not adhere to the blues base of traditional rock, not record songs of 3 minutes or less, or write songs that do not have a simple 4/4 beat with verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus...
    people do not want hip hop in a rock and roll hall of fame simply for the same reason they do not want opera, country or polka in it-it's not rock. race has nothing to do with it. there are quite a few black musicians who qualify for rock (living color, jimi Hendrix, phil lynott, etc). I am sick of boneheads flinging out that idiotic answer any time someone questions something such as why hip hop is in a rock and roll hall of fame. wenner and company made it a ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame but then put in non-rock acts willy nilly. just change the name to "museum of music critics' record collections" if you are upset with why people are not happy rap, country and soul acts are in there.
    "Alienated-so alien I go!"

  13. #13
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Durham NC
    Posts
    900

    Word! did they nominate the Jefferson Starship line up that hit with Red Octopus?
    "Alienated-so alien I go!"

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,506
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post

    Why do you think that no p0st-punk acts have been inducted yet?

    Peresman: They haven’t gotten enough votes, is the simple answer. I don’t have a quantification why they haven’t gotten enough votes.
    [/COLOR]
    The same reason prog acts aren't getting in, I think it's because *some* of those writers' tastes died in the late 60s. The only things they liked after that were a throwback. There isn't much more punk rock in there, than there is prog! To have put Nirvana in before The Smiths and Joy Division, who predated Nirvana, also smacks of a certain US bias. Much the same as having Rush (I know they are Canadian!) and Metallica in before Deep Purple, laughable.

    The 'racist' argument is a hell of a cheap shot- I wouldn't stand for that slur if I was in Kiss. Rap isn't rock and roll, that much is obvious (and I'm aware of the cross-overs). So rap being inducted at all is puzzling, and smacks of the Rock Hall wanting to be seen as being 'with it'. People have no objection to R&B or soul/funk acts being inducted because their influence on/connection to rock is obvious....on that note, where's The Stylistics, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes etc.?
    Last edited by JJ88; 06-08-2014 at 04:42 AM.

  15. #15
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by cavgator View Post
    Peresman: It was a lovely speech, it was actually kind of classy, as opposed to Paul [Stanley]’s. That speech was the best advertisement for [pointing out that] what we did was right. He’s been almost borderline racist, not in that speech, but in other interviews talking about how hip-hop artists shouldn’t be inducted because they don’t play instruments. It’s like, “What are you, kidding?”

    Wow! I guess not playing instruments is unique for black musicians? How can that be even a light year of being "borderline racist?" Simmons was expressing an opinion about the relative musicianship of the artists, very much like others at the RRHoF discuss the exclusion of a certain genre because they do not adhere to the blues base of traditional rock, not record songs of 3 minutes or less, or write songs that do not have a simple 4/4 beat with verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus...
    Quote Originally Posted by paythesnuka View Post
    I went looking for other comments by Gene about the hip-hop artists in the Hall of Fame and couldn't find anything that could be considered "borderline racist." It's a shame these days that if you say ANYTHING negative about a minority, the "racist card" is played. Pretty soon, an off-hand comment like "I hated the dress Beyonce wore at the MTV Music Awards" will be considered borderline racist.

    Seriously, talk about racism: the quote says "hip-hop artists"....I don't see anywhere that it specifies "black people". Yes, the black community has a vast majority of hip-hop artists and it is ingrained in modern black culture but there are plenty of white artists and artists of other races that do hip-hop and embrace the culture ( there is a huge white subculture amongst teens and 20s-) and hip-hop has even infiltrated predominately white musical forms (like modern country)


    <----smh

    Quote Originally Posted by Rune Blackwings View Post
    people do not want hip hop in a rock and roll hall of fame simply for the same reason they do not want opera, country or polka in it-it's not rock. race has nothing to do with it. there are quite a few black musicians who qualify for rock (living color, jimi Hendrix, phil lynott, etc). I am sick of boneheads flinging out that idiotic answer any time someone questions something such as why hip hop is in a rock and roll hall of fame. .
    yes


    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter0rjapan View Post
    I find it funny that he calls a comment racist that is only pointing out a simple fact. Sorry if some of us are confused about HUGE amounts of overlooked artists in the rock genre being crowded out by RAP artists. It is called the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, not the Rock, Pop and Rap hall of fame. Rap is all well and good, but give it it's own home or change the name of the hall.
    There are plenty of bands from the 90s, like Saliva and Rage Against The Machine, that will be eligible for the hall in about ten years that arent going to agree with your view

  16. #16
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    32S 116E
    Posts
    0
    Just saying... I don't know this Peresman guy, but I can't see anything especially wrong with the responses he gave to the questions. He even explained some things very well.

  17. #17
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,581
    I can't stand hip hop but I don't have a problem with hip hop artists being in the R&RHOF. R&R is an umbrella term. It covers all popular, youth music starting from the mid 50s with Elvis, Chuck, Little, etc. up to and including "pop," hip-hop/rap/crap, country/rock, blah blah. It's all semantics. Labels cause confusion and animosity. There was a thread recently where there was this big ballyhoo over whether some bands in the late 60s and early 70s were called "heavy metal" or whether they were "hard rock." It was an interesting discussion but the OP was dead serious. A lot of hand wringing over whether Deep Purple (or Zeppelin, either/or) were hard/rock or proto-metal. All that said, Hip Hop is part of the evolution of Rock/pop music. It's unfortunate but reality is reality. Rock music has always been divided along racial lines. You can't take "race," and ethnicity out of art. Hip Hop's lineage is traced back to all the great funk/soul acts of the 60s and 70s. So if hip-hop doesn't belong in the R&RHOF then James Brown doesn't belong in it either. I understand that many of us are allergic to hip hop and everything that surrounds it. I'm not defending hip-hop. Like I keep saying, I really can't stand it. Oh, I love me some old school funk and soul. I can even tolerate old school disco. I hated disco in the 70s, but I can listen to that stuff today and appreciate it.

  18. #18
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    32S 116E
    Posts
    0
    I think a big part of the problem is that the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" would be much better named the "Popular Music hall of Fame." The name dates from a time when "rock 'n' roll" was synonymous with "pop music", but that's no longer the case.

  19. #19
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Durham NC
    Posts
    900
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I can't stand hip hop but I don't have a problem with hip hop artists being in the R&RHOF. R&R is an umbrella term. It covers all popular, youth music starting from the mid 50s with Elvis, Chuck, Little, etc. up to and including "pop," hip-hop/rap/crap, country/rock, blah blah. It's all semantics. Labels cause confusion and animosity. There was a thread recently where there was this big ballyhoo over whether some bands in the late 60s and early 70s were called "heavy metal" or whether they were "hard rock." It was an interesting discussion but the OP was dead serious. A lot of hand wringing over whether Deep Purple (or Zeppelin, either/or) were hard/rock or proto-metal. All that said, Hip Hop is part of the evolution of Rock/pop music. It's unfortunate but reality is reality. Rock music has always been divided along racial lines. You can't take "race," and ethnicity out of art. Hip Hop's lineage is traced back to all the great funk/soul acts of the 60s and 70s. So if hip-hop doesn't belong in the R&RHOF then James Brown doesn't belong in it either. I understand that many of us are allergic to hip hop and everything that surrounds it. I'm not defending hip-hop. Like I keep saying, I really can't stand it. Oh, I love me some old school funk and soul. I can even tolerate old school disco. I hated disco in the 70s, but I can listen to that stuff today and appreciate it.
    The problem is that Rock originated from Rhythm and Blues and Country whereas Rap and Hip Hop appear to have emerged from urban street poets. It would be like calling a museum the "Modern Impressionist Hall of Fame" and then inducting graffiti artists into it.
    "Alienated-so alien I go!"

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I think a big part of the problem is that the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" would be much better named the "Popular Music hall of Fame." The name dates from a time when "rock 'n' roll" was synonymous with "pop music", but that's no longer the case.
    Indeed. If it was called the Pop Music Hall of Fame, we would be rejoicing the fact that Prog acts aren't in it.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  21. #21
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,581
    Quote Originally Posted by Rune Blackwings View Post
    The problem is that Rock originated from Rhythm and Blues and Country whereas Rap and Hip Hop appear to have emerged from urban street poets. It would be like calling a museum the "Modern Impressionist Hall of Fame" and then inducting graffiti artists into it.
    But you're suggesting that Hip Hop/Rap music evolved on its own without any influence from what came before. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you're trying to make. Hip Hop is an offshoot, or "branch" of African American funk/soul music, which itself evolved from R&B in the 50s. Yes, Allen Freed coined the term, but it was in use for decades before it (Rock & Roll) became a genre itself. I'm no R&R historian but I'm old enough to remember seeing the big division between what black kids were listening to in the mid 60s vs what "white" kids were listening to. by 1965 no one referred to James Brown or Aretha Franklin as "rock & roll." It was called "soul." But both evolved from the same soup in the 40s and 50s. I mean c'mon, without rhythm and blues, and plain old blues (and hilbilly too) there'd be no R&R. So again, I really have no problem with Hip Hop being included in the Hall.

  22. #22
    I can't wait for Hendrix to be inducted into the Hip Hop Hall of Fame.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,506
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    But you're suggesting that Hip Hop/Rap music evolved on its own without any influence from what came before. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you're trying to make. Hip Hop is an offshoot, or "branch" of African American funk/soul music, which itself evolved from R&B in the 50s. Yes, Allen Freed coined the term, but it was in use for decades before it (Rock & Roll) became a genre itself. I'm no R&R historian but I'm old enough to remember seeing the big division between what black kids were listening to in the mid 60s vs what "white" kids were listening to. by 1965 no one referred to James Brown or Aretha Franklin as "rock & roll." It was called "soul." But both evolved from the same soup in the 40s and 50s. I mean c'mon, without rhythm and blues, and plain old blues (and hilbilly too) there'd be no R&R. So again, I really have no problem with Hip Hop being included in the Hall.
    R&B acts were regularly crossing over into the 'pop' charts. In the UK there were no separate charts for different genres, and all those acts were having big hits.

    Rap has lasted the distance as a commercial entity, but beyond its acts sampling rock riffs there's nothing to link it to rock music at all, as far as I'm concerned. The lyrics are seldom sung in a melodic fashion*, which is a cornerstone of rock. In terms of albums/singles, rap also largely de-emphasised musicianship- another major cornerstone of rock- in favour of programming and sampling and basically made it *all* about the lyrics. That might be key to the appeal of rock for many rock critics, but for most everyone else, the music is what grabs them first.

    They themselves call it the 'Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame' so they should be prepared for the flak when they leave out huge-selling rock bands, and include acts that rock fans would never recognise as being part of the genre. If it were called something like the 'Popular Music Hall Of Fame' they could include all the rap acts they liked...well, the popular ones! (Not a value judgement, I'd say the same about prog as well.)
    Last edited by JJ88; 06-08-2014 at 12:01 PM.

  24. #24
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,581
    R&B acts were regularly crossing over into the 'pop' charts. In the UK there were no separate charts for different genres, and all those acts were having big hits.
    That's true. "Soul" music has always been hugely popular in the UK.

    but beyond its acts sampling rock riffs there's nothing to link it to rock music at all, as far as I'm concerned.
    Well, I disagree but that's okay. We can have a circular argument about this until we're blue. My point is that hip hop evolved from urban, soul music, which was begotten by the blues, R&B, and jazz of the 40s and 50s. I just don't see how hip hop could've evolved in a vacuum on its own.

  25. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    4,506
    ^I'd certainly agree that there are antecedents within soul music for rap. Gil Scott Heron for one with things like 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised'. (And, here we go again, he's not in the Rock Hall.) Rap's not my thing, but I also know rap acts have sampled many a 70s funk record.

    I can take your point on board, Vic, and see what you're driving at. If maybe they'd have put in a few rap acts in there many years later, people might accept that. But before they've inducted bands of the 60s and 70s (and even the 80s) from the genre they are supposedly celebrating? I'm not surprised there's such a controversy about it.

    The same goes for Madonna, Gene Simmons protested loudly about her inclusion as well, and the race card can't be cynically played there. I'd say her crossover with rock and even its audience is very minimal, to say the least. But they couldn't wait to induct her.
    Last edited by JJ88; 06-08-2014 at 12:21 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •