A proggy Triumph hypothesis

**augdimsus** · 05-30-2014

Scenario: In conversation with a prog fan, you learn that he or she has never heard the music of Triumph, a band you know and like. You compile a CD-length playlist for this person. What songs do you choose?

One answer:

Blinding Light Show/Moonchild
Street Fighter (Reprise)
The City
Just A Game
Hard Road
Ordinary Man
Never Surrender
Battle Cry
Time Canon
Killing Time
Stranger In a Strange Land
Play with the Fire
All the King's Horses

Total time: 70:18

**PeterG** · 05-30-2014

Originally Posted by augdimsus

What songs do you choose?

I don't know. I've never even heard of Triumph let alone heard any of their music.

**augdimsus** · 05-30-2014

Originally Posted by PeterG

I don't know. I've never even heard of Triumph let alone heard any of their music.

WeatherWiseCDC · 05-30-2014

I'd throw in "Hold On." It's a classic, and definitely a favorite track for most Triumph fans. This is almost always the "entry/gateway" song for those who haven't heard much of Triumph's music before.

The album would consist mostly (if not entirely) of the Rik Emmett songs.

Originally Posted by PeterG

I don't know. I've never even heard of Triumph let alone heard any of their music.

Members of the Canadian Music Hall of Fame.

**trurl** · 05-30-2014

Fight The Good Fight...

er, done

WeatherWiseCDC · 05-30-2014

Originally Posted by trurl

Fight The Good Fight...

er, done

I think "Fight The Good Fight" is another staple song.

I agree with a lot of the choices in the OP as well, and I'd throw in "Suitcase Blues" and "Midsummer's Daydream" in there just to show off Emmett's versatility. It's really tough to leave off "Lay It On the Line" as well.

Might as well make it a double album.

**dropforge** · 05-30-2014

One of their best songs IMO —

**PeterG** · 05-30-2014

Originally Posted by augdimsus

In case you'd like to be the hypothetical prog fan in the scenario...

Thanks, I'm listening to some right now.

**profusion** · 05-30-2014

Just use all the Rik Emmett songs and leave off all the Gil Moore songs.

**GuitarGeek** · 05-31-2014

The Lights Go Down
Allied Forces
Magic Power
Hold On
Somebody's Out There
Spellbound
Follow Your Heart
Too Much Thinking (hopefully, they don't recognize which Sabbath song they stole the verses from)
Never Surrender

(shrug) what can I say? I think you have to appreciate the rock n roll side before you can appreciate the (ahem) "prog" side.

**Trane** · 05-31-2014

for a very proggy debut album, I'd compile the first two albums like BLS/MC, City, Street Fighter (1&2), NYC Streets (1&2) and RnR Machine.

For their second slightly proggy album, I'd take a few tracks from Just a Game (Line, T/t, Hold On) and two or three from PoP and Allied Forces each

I'd compile the rest of the unused tracks from their first three albums a still very good third but un-prog album...

whatever came after AF is poure dreck , and nothing sounds proggy to me (from memory).

**dropforge** · 05-31-2014

Originally Posted by Trane

whatever came after AF is poure dreck , and nothing sounds proggy to me (from memory).

Never Surrender and Thunder Seven are great rock albums. Triumph is not a prog band and you shouldn't be looking for that in their music, regardless of whatever influences crept onto their earliest recordings. Plenty of prog elsewhere. Triumph recorded great hard rock and they boasted one of the best singer-guitarist frontmen ever. Even the "Rikless" album Edge of Excess is good.

**GuitarGeek** · 05-31-2014

Originally Posted by dropforge

Never Surrender and Thunder Seven are great rock albums. .

Thunder Seven I don't really know, except for the singles, but I agree Never Surrender is a great record. I should probably play When The Lights Go Down on my show. I did a great segue on Journey Of The Sorcerer's Apprentice once where I went from Too Much Thinking into Rocka Rolla itself from Judas Priest. I forget what else was in that set, but it was a good one. I even burned it onto CD.

As a sidenote, Rik Emmett produced an album for another Canadian band, Santers, which I think was called Guitar Alley. Haven't listened to it in ages, but I recall it had a really good version of All Right Now on it.

**Trane** · 05-31-2014

Originally Posted by dropforge

Never Surrender and Thunder Seven are great rock albums.

Typical mid-80's AOR if you ask me... And sonically not all that far away from noisy Hair metal (ala Bon Jovi)that popped u^around that time

the gret musicianship was not all that clear to me in those albums

Originally Posted by dropforge

Triumph recorded great hard rock and they boasted one of the best singer-guitarist frontmen ever. Even the "Rikless" album Edge of Excess is good.

Persionally, my fave album of theirs is RnR Machine, which is dominated by Gil Moore

===========

Santers: I saw them once or twice live around theur debut album released , but nowhere near as good as early Triumph

**Yves** · 05-31-2014

You lost me at " In conversation with a prog fan" ....

**augdimsus** · 05-31-2014

Originally Posted by dropforge

Even the "Rikless" album Edge of Excess is good.

There's a viewpoint not often heard! I like a few tracks off EoE, but the mixed lead-guitarist approach hurt it--why have Mladen write and Phil X overdub? Also, Gil Moore was probably chasing Whitesnake, perhaps not the best model. For another "alt.Triumph" album, Airtime's Liberty Manifesto (2007) is stellar.

**dropforge** · 05-31-2014

Originally Posted by augdimsus

There's a viewpoint not often heard! I like a few tracks off EoE, but the mixed lead-guitarist approach hurt it--why have Mladen write and Phil X overdub? Also, Gil Moore was probably chasing Whitesnake, perhaps not the best model. For another "alt.Triumph" album, Airtime's Liberty Manifesto (2007) is stellar.

I didn't bother with EoE for the longest time, mainly because (you guessed it) no Rik, and the single ("Child of the City") didn't impress me. I liked that Gil and Mike went a little heavier.

**dropforge** · 05-31-2014

Originally Posted by GuitarGeek

Thunder Seven I don't really know, except for the singles, but I agree Never Surrender is a great record. I should probably play When The Lights Go Down on my show. I did a great segue on Journey Of The Sorcerer's Apprentice once where I went from Too Much Thinking into Rocka Rolla itself from Judas Priest. I forget what else was in that set, but it was a good one. I even burned it onto CD.

The song "Time Goes By" that I posted is from Thunder Seven.

Originally Posted by GuitarGeek

As a sidenote, Rik Emmett produced an album for another Canadian band, Santers, which I think was called Guitar Alley. Haven't listened to it in ages, but I recall it had a really good version of All Right Now on it.

Rick Santers played live guitar and keys on Triumph's '86 tour. Santers (Rick, his brother on drums, and Rick Lazaroff on bass) recorded around three albums, and if you've never heard "Winter Freeze" from Racing Time, go to Youtube right now and play it.

**augdimsus** · 05-31-2014

dropforge: Several years back I compiled a playlist that blends Edge of Excess and Liberty Manifesto by Airtime (Rik Emmett and Mike Shotton, he of Von Groove fame). As a point of intersection, Shotton performed background vox on EoE (much of which was co-written by Mladen, also of Von Groove fame), so he was likely a friend of both Triumph "camps" through the period of hard feelings. The compilation is a good cross-section of the last Triumph-ant works from both Moore/Levine and Emmett before they patched things up in 2007. It's put together in a way that simulates what the final Triumph studio album could have been. The compilation rocks nicely, with tasty Emmett moods thrown in just like the old days. Several of the Airtime tracks are not on YouTube, but sample MP3s are available at http://www.nehrecords.com/shop/AirtimeLiberty.htm for the curious.

Also, for any Rush fans reading here...the cut "Troublemaker" from Edge of Excess was mixed by Terry Brown, and it shows.

Edge of Excess http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc1-RB2T3j4
Edge of Your Mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0VMqIo2aVI
Headstream/River Runs Deep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukzEfLhXlDg
Troublemaker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrCQQNYKvac
Code 9 [sorry, no YT clip available, but the sample here gives the idea http://www.nehrecords.com/shop/AirtimeLiberty.htm ]
Black Sheep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fJaXDhBYo
Liberty http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3fkVI5jSn0
Rise [again, no YT clip available, but the sample here gives the idea http://www.nehrecords.com/shop/AirtimeLiberty.htm ]
Child of the City http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI7YSQse9CI
Midnight Black and Blue, Transmutation [no YT clips available... http://www.nehrecords.com/shop/AirtimeLiberty.htm ]

**klothos** · 06-01-2014

Originally Posted by augdimsus

Scenario: In conversation with a prog fan, you learn that he or she has never heard the music of Triumph, a band you know and like. You compile a CD-length playlist for this person. What songs do you choose?

One answer:

Blinding Light Show/Moonchild
Street Fighter (Reprise)
The City
Just A Game
Hard Road
Ordinary Man
Never Surrender
Battle Cry
Time Canon
Killing Time
Stranger In a Strange Land
Play with the Fire
All the King's Horses

Total time: 70:18

"Magic Power" not in that list?!?

Sure, the song is a giant cliche but that was the flavor of that time ----- the rest of your list is good and i would add this one as well:

**trurl** · 06-01-2014

Magic Power makes my testicles retract into my body.

**augdimsus** · 06-01-2014

Originally Posted by klothos

"Magic Power" not in that list?!?

My original thought was to suggest tracks that someone who leans prog--and who had never heard of Triumph--might enjoy, as opposed to songs that capture the essence of Triumph, which a hypothetical interested listener could discover if they chose to dig further. Perhaps that was a wrong-headed idea. If it were a list of essential Triumph tunes, the cut that triggers trurl's retraction reflex (!) would certainly be there, as would other classics named above. "Time Goes By" and "Fight the Good Fight" happen to be personal favorites, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them to the hypothetical listener. Most Rush fans who were listening in the early 80s probably know FTGF quite well, near-Rush as it is, and maybe Thunder Seven as well, pointedly Zeppelinesque as it is.

Depending on interest, it might also be fun to recommend some of Rik Emmett's solo material to fans of the fusion realm of prog. In particular, Emmett's Swing Shift and Handiwork albums are worthy of note, even if they might be too traditional/smooth in melody for some tastes:

http://rikemmett.com/index.php/discography/swing-shift/
http://rikemmett.com/index.php/discography/handiwork/

**ronmac** · 06-01-2014

Originally Posted by trurl

Magic Power makes my testicles retract into my body.

A triumph of a different sort.

Saw these guys twice. First time on the Progressions of Power tour. I learned how to play air guitar watching Rik from about 15 in front of him that night. (I told this story before, but...) The first time I saw them, I actually went to see Rick Derringer open. His bus broke down, so Triumph's stage crew, who hdd their own band, played instead. They were really great.

Second time I saw them was in '84 at their commercial peak. Fantastic show with all the lasers. I saw Emmet solo years later and he could still hit the notes. And, of course, his playing is impeccable.

I use to ignorantly think that Mike Levine didn't contribute much beyond average bass and keys, until I learned how much he actually wrote and produced. He was pretty much the glue that brought it all together for Triumph.

I would have loved to see these guys on their reunion tour some years ago.

**dropforge** · 06-01-2014

Originally Posted by ronmac

I used to ignorantly think that Mike Levine didn't contribute much beyond average bass and keys, until I learned how much he actually wrote and produced. He was pretty much the glue that brought it all together for Triumph.

Double-true! He wrote, produced and something tells me he was the bridge between two sizeable egos in a three-piece band. IIRC, Mike's first instrument was piano, not bass.