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Thread: Should the prog big 5 now consider bands post 70's?

  1. #26
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    Sleepytime Gorilla Museum
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    Last edited by PeterG; 05-27-2014 at 05:36 AM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    Post-classic era P5:


    U Totem
    5UU's

  3. #28
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon moon View Post
    I wasn't aware that the Big 5 ratings are based on record sales. My list was based on quality.

    If the Big 5 is rated by record sales, then I could care less who sells the most.
    Agreed on the principle...

    But sales are often an indication (though hardly a strict rule) about pou-pularity and how influential a band was/is.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  4. #29
    Taking a page out of lists for Jazz and Classical, I think any list of Big 5 or Big 10 or whoever should primarily consider influence on later music. Louis Armstrong and John Coltrane are not alike except that both influenced later musicians to a rather large degree. Which five or ten prog acts had the most influence?

    I think it can be argued that all modern Metal, including Prog Metal, is filtered through the early output of Metallica. They may not be Prog but they certainly seem to have had a significant influence on a lot of current bands.

  5. #30
    Never. I reckon there are 100's of prog bands from the 70s that are better than the best prog band to form after 1980

  6. #31
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    interesting list, but the first three are a bt hors concours, IMHO...

    All three started making a fortune with less-proggy stuff
    Don't know about that, Radiohead had a breakthrough with Ok Computer, Muse with Absolution and DCD with Spleen and Ideal that were all early in their careers and pretty proggy
    Ian

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    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  7. #32
    Based on influence and originality...

    70's Big 5:

    KC (Highly influencial, Highly original)
    Yes (Highly influencial, Highly original)
    Genesis (Highly influencial, Highly original)
    ELP (Moderately influencial, Moderately original)
    GG (Hardly Influencial, HIGHLY original)

    Post '70's
    Marillion (Moderately influencial, Highly Derivitive)
    Anglagard (Moderately influencial, they brought muscularity back into the Prog. A big fav of mine)
    DT (Highly influencial, Mostly boring)
    TFK (Moderately influencial, Way too meandering)
    Rush (Highly influencial, Very original but they INSIST that they are NOT a Prog band, so...?)

  8. #33
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    [QUOTE=Digital_Man;258087]imo, it will always be Yes, ELP, Genesis, PF and KC. Almost no argument about it.

    A young (ie under 40 !) friend of mine thought all these bands were American !

  9. #34
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    My take on the original 70s big 5, based only on what I was hearing on the radio in the 70s, and listed in order of airplay is:

    Pink Floyd
    Genesis
    Jethro Tull
    Yes
    ELP




    First time I ever heard a King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Camel or Rush song anywhere was in the 90s.

  10. #35
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    The Big 5 is clearly Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, Jethro Tull & VDGG, no argument.
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
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    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  11. #36
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    It all depends on what you want the phrase "Big 5" to mean, as that character from Alice In Wonderland (was it hte White Queen?) might have said.

    If it means "most influential" then I would say the list has hardly changed, if at all, since the 1970's.

    If it means "most commercially successful", then that question can be settled by examining sales figures.

    If it means "foremost in 2014" then clearly it can't include Pink Floyd or Genesis, and it's a moot point whether it can still include Porcupine Tree.

  12. #37
    Member emperorken's Avatar
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    Although I'm not a fan, if you consider output, album and ticket sales, it would be difficult not to consider Sigur Ros in a current list.

  13. #38
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emperorken View Post
    Although I'm not a fan, if you consider output, album and ticket sales, it would be difficult not to consider Sigur Ros in a current list.
    Good pick, I'd forgotten them (& I have a bunch of their albums), do they replace PT or Tool? Probably PT.

    Muse
    Radiohead
    Dead Can Dance
    Tool
    Sigur Ros
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  14. #39
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    these seem to be the most popular:

    Marillion
    Porcupine Tree
    Flower Kings
    Spock's Beard
    Transatlantic

    I'm sure they sell WAY less CDs than the 70s big 5 ;-)
    You can't be truly "progressive" - i.e. groundbreaking -- if you're mimicking an older band.

  15. #40
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Yes
    Genesis
    KC
    Pink Floyd
    Tull
    Rush
    Porcupine Tree
    Marillion
    Tool
    Radiohead
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  16. #41
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    I'm surprised hardly anyone has mentioned Opeth. They seem pretty well known, and i find them far more interesting than, for example, Rush.

  17. #42
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    You can't be truly "progressive" - i.e. groundbreaking -- if you're mimicking an older band.
    True, but what does "progressive" have to do with "prog?"

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    come down to little more than the music at subjective preferance level.
    When doesn't it?
    For that which is not,
    there is no coming into being
    and for that which is,
    there is no ceasing to be;
    yea of both of these the lookers into truth have seen an end.
    Bhagavad Gita

  19. #44
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I don't find either as big X-thing, but to each his own

    You'd find them as "bigger" than Tool, TMV or Anglagard??
    Tool is often considered a prog fringe band as are TMV from what I understand. You got me on Anglagard though. I forgot about them. Heck Anekdoten would be a good candidate too but for some reason they don't get mentioned that often. Also, I don't think mainstream popularity should be the only factor but also influence(imo).

  20. #45
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    Post-classic era P5:

    Motor Totemist Guild
    Dr. Nerve
    Blast
    U Totem
    5UU's
    An RIO version of the big five. I like it. Good for you for thinking outside the box.

  21. #46
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    You can't be truly "progressive" - i.e. groundbreaking -- if you're mimicking an older band.
    Which of those bands are mimicking an older band? Sure they are influenced by them but mimicking? I personally don't see it(or hear it). Marillion did come pretty close in their early days but I wouldn't consider them a copycat band.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Which of those bands are mimicking an older band? Sure they are influenced by them but mimicking? I personally don't see it(or hear it). Marillion did come pretty close in their early days but I wouldn't consider them a copycat band.
    Correct, both KC & Genesis have been referred to 'copying' the Moody Blues in their early days!!!

  23. #48
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    I always thought the "Big 3" were King Crimson, Genesis, and Yes...don't know about any beyond that! (my personal big 3 of this era - VdGG, Gentle Giant, and Magma)

    For my money I prefer a lot of the more modern bands - Echolyn, Glass Hammer, IQ, Koenjihyakkei (and Ruins, and most of what Yoshida does), and Cardiacs (are they even considered a prog group??) all have excellent catalogues which easily stack up to the big 5/6/7 - and in some cases those catalogues are still expanding. As I've probably mentioned in other threads I do think it's awesome how some of these groups are 25/30 years on and seem to just now be at their peaks - how burnt out were most of the classic prog bands at that point?
    Critter Jams "album of the week" blog: http://critterjams.wordpress.com

  24. #49
    yeselpkrimson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    imo, it will always be Yes, ELP, Genesis, PF and KC. Almost no argument about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Sheds View Post
    A young (ie under 40 !) friend of mine thought all these bands were American !
    Depending on which lineup an under-40 person might have been familiar with, some of the "British prog giants" were only partially from Britain later in their careers:
    Yes on The Ladder = only 67% British, more recently 80% British.
    Genesis, the live lineup with Thompson & Stuermer = only 60% British.
    King Crimson on The ConstruKction of Light & The Power To Believe= only 25% British! (Soon to be 4/7 British... can't do the math, sorry )

  25. #50
    If I were trying to be objective, I'd say

    Phish
    Porcupine Tree
    Dream Theater
    Radiohead
    Muse

    If I were making wishes, I'd say:

    Thinking Plague
    Sanguine Hum
    Echolyn
    Big Big Train
    Thieves Kitchen

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