Crest of a Knave - heavy metal?

[PeterG]

Okay, I think we can all agree that by today's understanding of the term metal it wasn't a metal album....but it was back then and you can kind of understand the thinking of the Grammy judges, in that there are some true hard rock songs on there in the vein of Thin Lizzy, Dire Straits, Gary Moore, Robert Plant for example, and some killer metal guitar solos, "Steel Monkey", "Jump Start", "Budapest", "Mountain Men"



Also when it came out in 87, there were plenty of other albums in a similar vein being released by so-called heavy metal bands that were of a similar heaviness or in fact even lighter than Crest of a Knave, for example from most of the hair metal bands Europe, Bon Jovi, Whitesnake etc., plus bands like Guns n Roses, Motley Crue etc.

Steel Monkey for example is heavier than anything Whitesnake, Queen or Nazareth ever recorded.

So in the light of what was being called metal (especially in the UK) back then, it really isn't a stretch to think of the Dire Straits/Thin Lizzy inspired Crest of a Knave as a heavy metal (1987 definition) album.

Also, in light of some of the prog-metal being released in the 90s and 00s - Threshold, Everon, OSI, Opeth it becomes very easy to view it as a prog-metal album.

If you forget about genres for a second and forget that it is Jethro Tull and just compare the music on CoaK with the music of 80s hard rock/metal bands and with the music of 90s/00s prog-metal albums it becomes even easier again to understand how the Grammy judges were thinking.

In conclusion, one of my favourite JT albums, "folkprogmetal", as Ian Anderson recently referred to his new solo stuff.

[zombywoof]

I've never really taken the Grammy's seriously, so the fact that JT beat Metallica AND that Metallica and their fans were such sore losers over it, makes the whole thing extremely funny to me.

[JKL2000]

Has Dire Straits ever been considered metal at all?

[Vic2012]

Good album. Heavy metal no.

[TheH]

[PeterG]

Has Dire Straits ever been considered metal at all?

No, and I don't either & haven't said so. But hard rock, definitely.

[PeterG]

Heavy metal no.

Well, that's the whole point of the thread. In 87, it was as heavy metal as a whole shed load of the soft hair metal albums being released.

[Trane]

Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
Has Dire Straits ever been considered metal at all?

No, and I don't either & haven't said so. But hard rock, definitely.

I don't think you got JKL's comment

ACoK and Rock Islands are often described by progheads as sounding like Dire Strait (which I don't find)

[trurl]

The heaviest metal ever. Slayer heard that album and they were like, damn, we quit. Cannibal Corpse said they wished they could be that metal.

[taliesin]

The heaviest metal ever. Slayer heard that album and they were like, damn, we quit. Cannibal Corpse said they wished they could be that metal.

For the win.

[3LockBox]

no.

[Vic2012]

In 87, it was as heavy metal as a whole shed load of the soft hair metal albums being released.

Not even close. For some reason Jethro Tull got the "hard/rock" label affixed to them. They had big guitar riffs (thank you Martine Barre, you are an electric guitar God) but they were never metal or even hard/rock. I saw Jethro Tull in 2002, and it was an honor to sit in the presence of Sir Martin Barre. He is an unsung, electric guitar animal. He will kill you with that guitar. So if Jethro is "metal" it is because of Sir Martin Barre and that's where it starts and ends.

[Dave (in MA)]

Jethro Tull was never heavy metal, but they have always been hard rock. People who claim that they won a heavy metal Grammy have reading comprehension problems.

[Dave (in MA)]

I don't think you got JKL's comment

ACoK and Rock Islands are often described by progheads as sounding like Dire Strait (which I don't find)

Not only did Anderson start singing in a style a bit similar to Knopfler for a while in the late '80s, Barre occasionally played in a style not unlike him.

[Progatron]

The mosh pit at the last Tull show I was at was BRUTAL.

[Digital_Man]

JT won for best hard rock/heavy metal album in 1988 beating out Metallica. No they weren't heavy metal but they could fall under the hard rock term. Still I can understand why Metallica fans were disappointed and music fans stunned. Personally I think JT were heavier in the mid seventies. MitG(title track)is some pretty heavy stuff(at least for the time period).

[SteveSly]

JT won for best hard rock/heavy metal album in 1988 beating out Metallica. No they weren't heavy metal but they could fall under the hard rock term. Still I can understand why Metallica fans were disappointed and music fans stunned. Personally I think JT were heavier in the mid seventies. MitG(title track)is some pretty heavy stuff(at least for the time period).

This was a joke when it happened and still a joke today. I actually love "Crest" and think it is a great album, but I don't think anyone who was really into music would ever consider it Metal. Hard Rock, maybe, but there is no doubt that Metallica should have won this award in this catagory that year.

[Jerjo]

There have been those on this board that bitch that Tull is not a prog band, just a hard rock band. Of course, they're trolls and idiots but that's beside the point. Aqualung and some other songs rock plenty hard but what happened with this award was that the Grammy voters, who are so stodgy they makes the Oscar voting contingent look youthful, looked at this category and Jethro Tull was the only name many of them recognized.

I think Metallica should have won but the fact that this twisted the tighty whiteys of that little prick Lars Ulrich does give me some satisfaction.

[3LockBox]

I knew a lot of Metallica fans that were outraged at that inaugural heavy metal Grammy going to Tull and while I can see why people looked sideways at it, I considered it the Grammy they deserved retroactively anyway.

I loved CoaK when it came out. My other favorite album around the same time was Robert Plant-Now and Zen... boy, talk about two albums whose production values are inexorably linked to the year they were released.

[Digital_Man]

This was a joke when it happened and still a joke today. I actually love "Crest" and think it is a great album, but I don't think anyone who was really into music would ever consider it Metal. Hard Rock, maybe, but there is no doubt that Metallica should have won this award in this catagory that year.

As much as I like JT I am inclined to agree. It wasn't JT's time. If they were going to win an award like that they should have won it long before.

[rapidfirerob]

The last JT album I bought. Really like it. Certainly not heavy metal, a term that gets misused often IMO. I do not consider Blue Oyster Cult or Deep Purple heavy metal but other folks do. Since I believe Metallica to suck, I was happy JT won any Grammy. Having said that, the award is a joke really, like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It's about the music, not awards or inductions.

[Trane]

The last JT album I bought. Really like it.

Hey Rob,

you missed out on the excellent Root To Branches... probably their closest to the early Tull they got since the early 80's

[PeterG]

Not even close. For some reason Jethro Tull got the "hard/rock" label affixed to them. They had big guitar riffs (thank you Martine Barre, you are an electric guitar God) but they were never metal or even hard/rock. I saw Jethro Tull in 2002, and it was an honor to sit in the presence of Sir Martin Barre. He is an unsung, electric guitar animal. He will kill you with that guitar. So if Jethro is "metal" it is because of Sir Martin Barre and that's where it starts and ends.

Thank You Vic, finally someone who understands the point of the thread. And I agree, without that guitar their shortlived "hard rock" or "metal" status would have been a non-starter.
I must diagree on your opening comment though, revisit some of that 80s hair metal and hard rock and you'll realise how soft most of it actually was. Rainbow for example, with just a few hard hitting exceptions were mostly delivering synth-driven pop a la Boston.

[PeterG]

I knew a lot of Metallica fans that were outraged at that inaugural heavy metal Grammy going to Tull and while I can see why people looked sideways at it, I considered it the Grammy they deserved retroactively anyway.

I loved CoaK when it came out. My other favorite album around the same time was Robert Plant-Now and Zen... boy, talk about two albums whose production values are inexorably linked to the year they were released.

Agree with all that. Love CoaK, love Plant's Zen. You should also check out Tull's Roots to Branches, a lovely album.

[Vic2012]

revisit some of that 80s hair metal and hard rock and you'll realise how soft most of it actually was.

No thanks, I'm not revisitin' any 80s hair metal . I get your point. Back then "heavy metal" in the mainstream was the big commercial sounding stuff like Whitesnake, and even Heart. So the Grammy people lumped Jethro into that heap and gave them the grammy. In 1988 I was aware of Metallica and I knew they had a huge following but they weren't completely above ground yet. Eventually Metallica would be a household name. And the irony about that is when Metallica conquered the world all their fans called them "sellouts."

Anyway, I played COAK last night because of this thread. The guitar playing is outstanding. I'm not crazy about all the songs on the album but the meat of the album makes it worth owning. Favorite track is "Farm On The Freeway." Yeah, it's got some teeth. If you want to compare it to the pop, bubblegum metal of that time then I'd say COAK blows 'em all away. On th other hand, if I'm on a desert island and I had to pick a Metallica record (say Puppets, or Justice) or Crest Of A Knave. I'll take the Metallica records.