Rock Hall of Fame sued by snubbed Heart members

[Dan Roth]

I remember the discussion happening when Heart were inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame - their bassist and drummer from the '80s and early '90s were left out, despite being on their biggest selling albums and being in Heart when they were regularly hitting the tops of the charts. Now Mark Andes and Denny Carmassi have launched a lawsuit against the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame for the Hall using their photos in promo material. Again - the question has to be asked - why can't the Hall just induct all of the members? I just don't get it.

This is the full article from http://classicrock.teamrock.com/news...-hall-of-fame:

Former Heart bassist Mark Andes and drummer Denny Carmassi have launched a lawsuit against the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

They were left out of the band’s induction ceremony last year – but their photographs were used in promotional material.

And they say they were left “humiliated” when they had to respond to colleagues’ congratulations by explaining that only members of the original line-up were being honoured.

Andes and Carmassa spent nine years with Heart from 1982 and appeared on all their Grammy-nominated tracks and half their total of 20 hit singles.

They say in legal papers: “Plaintiffs are not asking that defendant Rock Hall induct them into the Hall of Fame. Instead, this is an action to protect the rights, reputations, and likenesses of Mark Andes and Dennis Carmassi through the causes of actions false light invasion of privacy, misappropriation of name and likeness invasion of privacy, injurious falsehood, libel, slander, and right of attribution falsification of rock and roll history for Defendants’ wilful and unauthorised use of Plaintiffs’ images and likenesses.”

The rhythm section say Heart leaders Ann and Nancy Wilson wanted them to be inducted along with the original line-up, but Rock Hall bosses refused.

Ann Wilson told Billboard at the time: “They should be here – they really should be here.”

But CEO Joel Peresman countered: “We went very carefully over all the history, and the members of Heart that are being inducted were the ones everyone felt should be inducted. This is the final decision of our committee.”

[ronmac]

They certainly have a good argument here.

[Scott Bails]

Of course they do. The whole "policy" is stupid.

[Scott Bails]

But CEO Joel Peresman countered: “We went very carefully over all the history, and the members of Heart that are being inducted were the ones everyone felt should be inducted. This is the final decision of our committee.”

Right. Everyone but the band itself and their fans.

Makes sense.

[ronmac]

Yep. They really need to step outside of their bubble and get some real PR people.

[progeezer]

Any misery that can be inflicted on Weiner Wenner and his band of sycophants is a good thing.

Damn right these guys have a case.

[spellbound]

I don't know much about Carmassi, but I have been an admirer of Mark Andes' musicianship since the '60s. He was an early member of Canned Heat (pre-recording), founding member of Spirit (IMO one of the greatest bands ever), founding member of Jo Jo Gunne, founding member of Firefall, and member of Heart for their most commercially successful decade, and absolutely deserves recognition by the RRHOF. Mr. Andes and Mr. Carmassi have a good case, and I wish them luck. If the RRHOF chose to snub them, they should have been careful to do so without breaking the law. It is sad that this kind of thing has to come down to a lawsuit, but sometimes that is the only hand an artist has left to play. Why does the RRHOF have a CEO? Entry to the Hall of Fame should be determined by a panel of musicians, with emphasis on recognition of talents rather than playing an elitist exclusionary game at the expense of the artists and their fans. BTW, the Classic Rock link in the original post does not work.

[Gruno]

Entry to the Hall of Fame should be determined by a panel of musicians, with emphasis on recognition of talents rather than playing an elitist exclusionary game at the expense of the artists and their fans.

Paul Stanley addressed this during his speech this year at the Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame induction:

Here we are tonight, basically inducted for the same things that we were kept out for. The people, I believe we’re speaking to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and what they’re saying is, “We want more.” They deserve more. They want to be apart of the induction. They want to be apart of the nomination. They don’t want to be spoon-fed by a handful of people. Choices. The people pay for tickets. The people buy albums. The people who nominate do not. Let’s not forget that these are the people that make it all possible.

[Lopez]

Sounds to me by Peresman's response that he completely evaded the issue, and that is not that the two members were not inducted but that their images were used without permission. I may not have all the facts, but if that's the gist of it, Mark and Denny have a great case.

[Just Eric]

Since the current RRHOF sucks so badly, why don't we start our own? We could kickstart a grassroots effort to open a new Hall of Fame. Of course we couldn't call it the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, so we'd have to get a slightly different name. Hmmm .....

International Treasures of Rock Music.

[Dan Roth]

BTW, the Classic Rock link in the original post does not work.

Not sure what happened to that link, but there is now a good article on this from Billboard.com

http://www.billboard.com/articles/ne...l-hall-of-fame



Andes and Carmassi are suing the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because their likenesses and the songs they performed were used to promote Heart’s induction. The duo’s complaint states that when fans and fellow musicians offered them congratulations for their success, they were “humiliated” to explain “that they were inexplicably not chosen for induction.”

The complaint states: “Plaintiffs are not asking that defendant Rock Hall induct them into the Hall of Fame. Instead, this is an action to protect the rights, reputations, and likenesses of Mark Andes and Dennis Carmassi through the causes of actions false light invasion of privacy, misappropriation of name and likeness invasion of privacy, injurious falsehood, libel, slander, and right of attribution falsification of rock and roll history for Defendants’ wilful and unauthorized use of Plaintiffs’ images and likenesses."

According to the complaint, following the Dec. 11, 2012, announcement Heart would be inducted into the Hall of Fame but that Andes and Carmassi were not, they wrote a letter to the institution asking for an explanation and defending their role in the band’s success. It states Hall of Fame CEO Joel Peresman responded the next day stating, “We have a group of people who are very focused on these things and collaborate on the various areas of their expertise. As we do every year we went very carefully over all of the history and the members of Heart that were are [sic] being inducted besides Ann and Nancy [Wilson] were the ones everyone felt should be inducted. I am sorry if these others feel this isn’t right but this is the final decision of our committee.”

From there, images including Andes and Carmassi’s were used on the Rock Hall’s biography page for the band including the band’s 1985 self-titled album's cover art. Founders and main members Ann and Nancy Wilson asked the Hall to reconsider its decision to exclude Andes and Carmassi given that they “were in the band when it garnered several Grammy nominations and their biggest commercial success”. But the Hall refused to change its decision. The complaint sites a Billboard article and video in its exhibits, as proof of Ann and Nancy Wilson’s desire that Andes and Carmassi should have been admitted.

Speaking at the 2013 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Red Carpet, Ann Wilson said of Andes and Carmassi, “They should be here. They really should be here.”

Andes and Carmassi are seeking compensatory damages for all losses, treble damages on all trademark claims, punitive damages and exemplary damages.

The complaint states: “Although induction to the Rock Hall is normally a positive thing, to be knowingly and/or recklessly placed in such a position by Defendants is highly offensive to a reasonable person when being placed in that position requires having to continually correct the record on an issue of such personal importance.”

[cavgator]

I hope those guys bankrupt them. Freaking elitists!!

"It's OUR club and we will damned sure let in anyone WE think is worthy. To Hell with the fans, album sales, and everyone else who complains..."

[JKL2000]

Everyone should just agree to call it The Hall of Shitting on Rock 'n' Roll, then we can all move on...

[profusion]

It's sort of the Bizarro World version of what happened with Bob Welch. The HOF rejected him because he wasn't on Fleetwood Mac's most popular albums, even though he basically dominated the band between 1971-74, wrote/sang a huge bunch of material on five FM albums, and is largely responsible for the band continuing to exist long enough for Lindsey/Stevie to enter the picture.

Andes and Carmassi, on the other hand, were on the two Heart albums that were far and away their biggest sellers (if certainly not their artistically best ones), but they aren't in the HOF because they were seen as supporting players or hired guns.

[Adrian]

"It's OUR club and we will damned sure let in anyone WE think is worthy. To Hell with the fans, album sales, and everyone else who complains..."

But that's just it -- that place IS an elite little club. The biggest problem is that people continue to give this "hall of fame" a sense of importance that it doesn't merit, and never has. The notion of a hall of fame for an artistic endeavor like music is so ridiculous, it should be laughed out of town.

[trurl]

I don't know much about Carmassi,

He is a drumming motherf**ker, originally with Montrose.

[WytchCrypt]

One more reason the RRHoF is an embarrassment and should be ignored.

[Rand Kelly]

Paul Stanley addressed this during his speech this year at the Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame induction:

Paul Stanley came by my workplace yesterday and I have proof.


Snapshot_20140523.JPG

I have no idea why the photo is reversed but if you place this in front of a mirror you can clearly see the name.

[jupiter0rjapan]

And this why Alex's "Blah blah blah..." speech didn't bother me one bit. It said all that needed to be said.

[Joe F.]

I hope those guys bankrupt them. Freaking elitists!!

"It's OUR club and we will damned sure let in anyone WE think is worthy. To Hell with the fans, album sales, and everyone else who complains..."

This isn't going to bankrupt anybody.

[SteveSly]

He is a drumming motherf**ker, originally with Montrose.

]

Yup, Camassi has played with a shitload of people. He was the drummer for Coverdale / Page back in the day and also a member of Whitesnake. He has played with Joe Walsh, Stevie Nicks, Al Stewart, Ted Nugent, Sammy Hagar just to name a few. There is no doubt he and Andes should be in the hall.

[ronmac]

This isn't going to bankrupt anybody.

Indeed.

[GuitarGeek]

It's interesting to see where such a lawsuit would go. What would happen if the plaintiffs prevail? The snubbed band members names get added at the bottom of the plaque or whatever at the Hall Of Fame that identifies Heart as being inducted? Suddenly whatever Heart exhibit they have suddenly has one of Andes' Carvin basses?

I somehow doubt they're not going to get the outcome they want. The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame is a private business, to the best of my knowledge it's not funded by tax dollars. I somehow suspect that the courts will effectively give Wenner and his cadre of cave trolls the power to say (as Paul Kantner once put it in a late period Jefferson Starship song), "FUCK YOU! WE DO WHAT WE WANT!".

I honestly can't see why everyone gets so hot under the collar about this stuff. I mean, seriously, how can you take a "rock n roll hall of fame" seriously that inducts Metallica before either Judas Priest, Iron Maiden or Thin Lizzy?! Frelling Metallica wouldn't even exist without Priest, Maiden and Lizzy!

[Scott Bails]

It's interesting to see where such a lawsuit would go. What would happen if the plaintiffs prevail? The snubbed band members names get added at the bottom of the plaque or whatever at the Hall Of Fame that identifies Heart as being inducted? Suddenly whatever Heart exhibit they have suddenly has one of Andes' Carvin basses?

I somehow doubt they're not going to get the outcome they want. The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame is a private business, to the best of my knowledge it's not funded by tax dollars. I somehow suspect that the courts will effectively give Wenner and his cadre of cave trolls the power to say (as Paul Kantner once put it in a late period Jefferson Starship song), "FUCK YOU! WE DO WHAT WE WANT!".

That's not what they're suing for. They're not asking to be elected (though, true justice would make that happen). They're suing because the HoF did not elect them, but still used their images and work to promote the event.

[ronmac]

That's not what they're suing for. They're not asking to be elected (though, true justice would make that happen). They're suing because the HoF did not elect them, but still used their images and work to promote the event.

More specifically, it has nothing to do with whether or not they elected them. It has everything to do with the fact that they used their likenesses for commercial purposes without their permission.