Did Led Zeppelin Really Rip Off Spirit / Taurus?

[A. Scherze]

[Trane]

If I was Page and co, I'd sue them for being almost insulting/tasteless and most amateurish... I mean, if they actually stripped naked during it (as they hint they would by the background pic), than maybe it might have been wrthy of wasting two minutes.

[Sputnik]

It appears an appeal has been filed... http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...ppeals-w430933

[Koreabruce]

Led Zeppelin lose fight to recoup legal fees from Stairway trial:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37014778

[Zeuhlmate]

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ That rather embarrassing ripoff always kept me from truly enjoying an otherwise average album. Consequently I sold my Eneide CD.

[Dan Roth]

Led Zeppelin prevailed again - from Hollywood Reporter:

Led Zeppelin has once again prevailed in a long-running copyright dispute over whether the U.K. rock band infringed Spirit's "Taurus" to create "Stairway to Heaven." On Monday, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed a trial court's decision of no copyright infringement after a jury in 2016 handed Led Zeppelin a win. Today's decision comes after the appellate court voted to re-do the trial only to have larger issues re-examined en banc, meaning before a wider panel of judges.

A 54-page decision (read here) plus concurrences will likely become a new standard in copyright infringement cases and may be presented to the Supreme Court. Among other aspects of the decision, the Ninth Circuit determines it was not in error that the jury didn't get to hear the original "Taurus" sound recording at trial. Furthermore, the appeals court elects to ditch the "inverse ratio rule," meaning the higher the degree of access to a work, the lower the bar for proving substantial similarity. In June 2019, a pair of Ninth Circuit judges decided that while the scope of protection for an unpublished musical work is defined by what was deposited with the Copyright Office, it was nevertheless an error to not allow the jury to hear the "Taurus" sound recording because it could have been used by the plaintiff to demonstrate Led Zeppelin's access to the song. Additionally, the prior decision held that the jury was improperly instructed about unprotectable music elements and improperly instructed on originality.

Neither side was pleased with the appellate court's initial conclusion. The heir of Wolfe (also known as Randy California) sought reconsideration on the determination that the scope of the song's copyright was solely determined by what was deposited with the U.S. Copyright Office while Led Zeppelin argued that the correction of any errors would have led to the same jury result. Once the Ninth Circuit decided to rehear the case, it gained importance because among other things, it set different copyright standards for newer and older works and led to some arguing that only those with classical music training — i.e. could notate music — would gain the benefit of protection.

[AncientChord]

As a youth I loved Led Zeppelin, but I realized then, in the early 70's, that Jimmy Page lifted many melodies from a number of songs from different sources, especially in blues, and didn't give the song author any credit whatsoever. A blatant example is Jake Holmes' Dazed and Confused. Spirit on the other hand was IMO was one of the best U.S. bands of the late 60' and early 70's. I was fortunate enough to see the original line-up three times, and will never forget how great and ORIGINAL they were. Lots of plagiarism in prog over the years too, but that's a whole other topic.

[spellbound]

So, are the courts favoring Led Zeppelin because they have more money than Spirit? IMO, Zeppelin did rip off the tune, as they did many others. From what I understand, Spirit's side did not ask for financial compensation, merely recognition that Randy Wolfe had written the tune stolen by Page. Does the court prefer thievery?

[viukkis]

If anything, Zeppelin ripped off a couple of chords played on an acoustic guitar and wrote a completely different tune on top of that. The melody lines are completely different and the chord progression itself isn't original at all. There are blatant cases of plagiarism elsewhere in Led Zeppelin's catalog, but this isn't one of them.

[Scrotum Scissor]

While 'Led Zeppelin' obviously stands alone - seeing as they're a "known" band - it's apparently very important for some news media to specify how their adversary was 'the American band Spirit' (i.e. "whom no one in their right mind have heard of").

[SunRunner2]

With 7 albums in the top 200 charts from 1968 to 1976 (including 5 in the top 100 album charts), a certified Gold album in 1970 (Twelve Dreams, which was hailed as a "landmark of art rock") and several singles that received significant airplay (especially on FM radio stations), I don't think that the media is specifying that no one has heard of Spirit. Obviously, Spirit pales in comparison to Led Zep popularity-wise, but that should have nothing to do with this case. I don't have an opinion on the courts decision, but I do view Led Zep as being overplayed and over hyped to the point of nausea. I saw then in concert in 1971, but as the years went by I tired of them due to the incessant overplaying of their material (radio stations even had all day features on them, called "Get The Led Out").

[GuitarGeek]

(radio stations even had all day features on them, called "Get The Led Out").

I guess I'm lucky, because in my area, the "Get the Led Out" feature was just a single hour. But they did it every day.

I remember back in the late 80's or early 90's, MTV News doing a piece about an all Led Zeppelin radio station. First day of broadcast, they played Stairway To Heaven for 24 straight hours. This led to listeners panicking and calling the police because the DJ had keeled over at the console or something.

Anyway, so this "all Zep, all the time" format only lasted for about 2 weeks, because, at the time, there was only something like 7 hours of Zep music that had been officially released (and even now, there's not that much more besides that), so after a period of running all that to the ground, they went to a Zep and Pink Floyd format. That lasted for a week, then they went to Zep, Floyd and The Who or something like that. Then after another week, they finally reverted to a stock "classic rock" format.

[SunRunner2]

I guess I'm lucky, because in my area, the "Get the Led Out" feature was just a single hour. But they did it every day.

I remember back in the late 80's or early 90's, MTV News doing a piece about an all Led Zeppelin radio station. First day of broadcast, they played Stairway To Heaven for 24 straight hours. This led to listeners panicking and calling the police because the DJ had keeled over at the console or something.

Hilarious, man!

You're probably more accurate in that it was an hour a day for quite sometime, where I was. At any rate, it resulted in over-exposure for many listeners, both fans and non-fans. Today, when I still hear "Whole Lotta Love", "Stairway" or many other of their "hits" being played virtually daily on the classic rock stations I wonder to myself, how many times before ad nauseum sets in, how many times? I realize the huge number of fans that exist out there, both young and not so young, but come on.

[ronmac]

but I do view Led Zep as being overplayed and over hyped to the point of nausea. I saw then in concert in 1971, but as the years went by I tired of them due to the incessant overplaying of their material (radio stations even had all day features on them, called "Get The Led Out").

Sounds like how I feel about AC/DC. As soon as I hear the opening crashing chord, I change stations. Of course, that's when I don't have a CD playing, which is most of the time.

[Mister Triscuits]

Sounds like how I feel about AC/DC. As soon as I hear the opening crashing chord, I change stations. Of course, that's when I don't have a CD playing, which is most of the time.

I don't know how I've gotten through life barely having heard any AC/DC. Looking at a list of their singles, I've heard "You Shook Me All Night Long" a time or two (speaking of Led Zeppelin and ripoffs), and at least parts of "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" and "Highway to Hell," and I can conjure up a shriek of "I'm back in black!" without remembering anything else about the song. Dr. Demento used to play "Big Balls" a lot, so that's the only one I've heard more than a couple of times. Other than that, I've heard bar bands and jammers playing AC/DC songs more than I've heard the actual records. I was flabbergasted when I discovered that these guys had the second biggest selling album in music history.

[ronmac]

I don't know how I've gotten through life barely having heard any AC/DC.

The local station might as well change their call letters to WACDC, as much as they play them. To be totally honest, I can rarely tolerate that station, anyway, since their play list is so pathetically short, stale and uninspired. I'm clearly not their demographic anymore, which is perfectly fine with me.

[Scrotum Scissor]

With 7 albums in the top 200 charts from 1968 to 1976 (including 5 in the top 100 album charts), a certified Gold album in 1970 (Twelve Dreams, which was hailed as a "landmark of art rock") and several singles that received significant airplay (especially on FM radio stations), I don't think that the media is specifying that no one has heard of Spirit.

Well, to quote Nick Saloman in Ptolemaic Terrascope back in the days before Randy California died and was still in the band with Ed Cassidy during a tour supporting (or rather double-billing) Wishbone Ash in the UK, "[…] apparently no one even in the rock business here in England appear to know who these legends are". And certainly here in Europe during the libel case against LZ, Spirit are practically unheard of. Does well to remember how so-called younger generations today are less-than-acquainted with rock history in general and the experience of timespans overall seems to be exceptionally narrow. A decade is oblivion nowadays.

[Koreabruce]

...the experience of timespans overall seems to be exceptionally narrow. A decade is oblivion nowadays.

You said it! I'm finding myself increasingly bewildered by this lack of awareness of and knowledge about events that are, to me at least, still in the very recent past... this despite the wide availability of vast resources literally at everyone's fingertips. I suppose it's a fact of life we'll have to learn to live with.

[AncientChord]

I saw then in concert in 1971, but as the years went by I tired of them due to the incessant overplaying of their material (radio stations even had all day features on them, called "Get The Led Out").

I saw them only one time at the old Long Beach Arena in California. It was just before Led Zep 4 was released and they performed Stairway To Heaven, which no one heard before and it received polite applause. The polite applause continued after every song. Why no excitement? Because the band was so stoned out of their minds they couldn't play worth a shit. And I'm not talking about weed. By the looks and sound of the band, I think it was probably heroin. The once brilliant guitar playing by Page in the Yardbirds and 1969 Led Zeppelin was gone. I could see the band well because I had good seats, and Page was reduced to being a drooling Zombie who couldn't even play chords without fucking up. What a let down. That experience ended my youthful love of the band. On the other hand all 4 shows I saw of the original Spirit line-up were brilliant. One of L.A.'s best, to me even better than The Doors. So sad that Randy California died a hero saving his son from drowning. I'm probably going to get heat for this but John Bonham didn't die in an admiral way. Cause of death: Stupidity by overindulgence.

[Koreabruce]

Page used to go pretty heavy at the Jack Daniels. From everything I've read, heroin didn't really enter into things until sometime after 1973.

[Zeuhlmate]

If anything, Zeppelin ripped off a couple of chords played on an acoustic guitar and wrote a completely different tune on top of that. The melody lines are completely different and the chord progression itself isn't original at all. There are blatant cases of plagiarism elsewhere in Led Zeppelin's catalog, but this isn't one of them.

[syncopatico]

I'm probably going to get heat for this but John Bonham didn't die in an admiral way.

Maybe because it was John Paul Jones who was the Navy hero! <sorry, couldn't resist!>

[The Dark Elf]

I'm probably going to get heat for this but John Bonham didn't die in an admiral way.

Maybe because it was John Paul Jones who was the Navy hero! <sorry, couldn't resist!>

I suppose I should show some anchor, and give you a stern warning, but that ship has sailed. So take a bow, matey.

[jefftiger]

The U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal. The battle is over.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54423922