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Thread: YES - "Talk" their most overlooked album? Anderson and Rabin think so.

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    ^I can't disagree with you there. 'Teakbois' and 'Quartet' are atrocious. 'Order Of The Universe' sounds a bit corny in that big chorus (as does 'Long Lost Brother Of Mine' IMHO) but it starts off OK.

    But for me, the first half of ABWH is much more in tune with what I like about Yes than basically anything on 'Talk'.
    Or anything after Drama, for that matter.

    Bob

  2. #152
    Member 2steves's Avatar
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    I think Talk is hyped up and not all that interesting--tried to listen to it recently and couldn't get thru it---but I don't listen to The Ladder, OYE at all and if I had to chose I guess Talk is better than those two---but not by much. No Yes album past Drama doesn't have it's fair share of clunkers---including ABWH--but still listen to that CD more than the others.

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    No Yes album past Drama doesn't have it's fair share of clunkers---including ABWH--but still listen to that CD more than the others.
    Personally speaking, I think 90125, Big Generator, Keys to Ascension, Keys to Ascension 2, The Ladder, Magnification and Fly from Here all have less than their fair share of clunkers... but I recognise I'm in a minority on this matter.

    Henry
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  4. #154
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devoidzer0 View Post
    Here is the complete show from Binghamton, NY on 1994-06-18. The video is decent for a '90s fan recording, but the audio is really the star (it sounds to be an FM transmission from within the arena, directly from the soundboard).
    that does sound good

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    I think Talk is hyped up and not all that interesting--tried to listen to it recently and couldn't get thru it---but I don't listen to The Ladder, OYE at all and if I had to chose I guess Talk is better than those two---but not by much. No Yes album past Drama doesn't have it's fair share of clunkers---including ABWH--but still listen to that CD more than the others.
    I think Drama has a few 'clunkers' as well. 'Man In A White Car' is nothing much and 'Run Through The Light' is them trying to be trendy and 'New Wave' IMHO. The other four tracks are rock-solid, thankfully!

    Talk is honestly one of my least favourite Yes albums, although I recognise it as being objectively a better, more coherent effort than Union or Open Your Eyes, so I place it above those. But those three are certainly my least played Yes albums.

  6. #156
    The Official Clunker List

    Drama: none
    90125: none (City of Love is close)
    Big Generator: none (except for Love Will Find Away, Big Generator and Holy Lamb)
    Union: none (except Shock to the System and the disco one -- three good songs)
    Talk: none
    Keys Studio none (except not much is that interesting)
    The Ladder Whatever the ballad is called
    Magnification Don't Go, and the song that sounds like a Coca Cola commercial to close it
    Fly From Here The Man You Always Want Me to Be, Bumpy Ride
    Last edited by yamishogun; 09-26-2015 at 01:23 AM.

  7. #157
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Ok I am very late to the game here....don't think I had ever heard this album, or maybe the first track only. Considering 1994, the circumstances around this crazy band, etc this is a very impressive work and demonstrates Rabin as a very talented cat. It has a wall of sound at points, but the writing is good-to-great. I'm very pleasantly surprised.

    I have always been a fan of 90125 and Big Generator but generally thought Union was a stinker (saw it live twice though; maybe I need to revisit that with 2021 ears) so I probably just jumped ship. This is light years beyond the stuff I've heard since the real Jon exited imo. I just ordered a used CD for $6 from Discogs. The final track is just excellent. Very surprised.

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Ok I am very late to the game here....don't think I had ever heard this album, or maybe the first track only. Considering 1994, the circumstances around this crazy band, etc this is a very impressive work and demonstrates Rabin as a very talented cat. It has a wall of sound at points, but the writing is good-to-great. I'm very pleasantly surprised.

    I have always been a fan of 90125 and Big Generator but generally thought Union was a stinker (saw it live twice though; maybe I need to revisit that with 2021 ears) so I probably just jumped ship. This is light years beyond the stuff I've heard since the real Jon exited imo. I just ordered a used CD for $6 from Discogs. The final track is just excellent. Very surprised.
    This ^

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Ok I am very late to the game here....don't think I had ever heard this album, or maybe the first track only. Considering 1994, the circumstances around this crazy band, etc this is a very impressive work and demonstrates Rabin as a very talented cat. It has a wall of sound at points, but the writing is good-to-great. I'm very pleasantly surprised.

    I have always been a fan of 90125 and Big Generator but generally thought Union was a stinker (saw it live twice though; maybe I need to revisit that with 2021 ears) so I probably just jumped ship. This is light years beyond the stuff I've heard since the real Jon exited imo. I just ordered a used CD for $6 from Discogs. The final track is just excellent. Very surprised.
    Agree! I saw them on the Talk tour and thought the live performance of Endless Dream was excellent.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    Personally I liked Talk when it came out, but it hasn't stood the test of time for me. Yet the boots from the tour are quite good. I really like the version of Endless Dream on the Santiago DVD for example, though I never much liked it on the studio disc.
    I had a vague memory of participating in a Talk thread a few years ago, and there it is... 5-11-2014. Funny, my opinion of Talk has gone up again over the last seven years. Largely on account of the boots: Canandaigua, Maryland Heights, Binghamton, and as above the Santiago DVD.

  11. #161
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    Sorry, Talk is perhaps my most loathed Yes album, it suffers from a lot of things not least the disappointment of Howe, Bruford and Wakeman being ejected from the band..

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve983 View Post
    Sorry, Talk is perhaps my most loathed Yes album, it suffers from a lot of things not least the disappointment of Howe, Bruford and Wakeman being ejected from the band..
    I know a lot of people like Talk. I never understand what they hear in it. I love 90125 and Big Generator, and generally prefer the YesWest tracks on Union, so I'm not hostile to another YesWest album. But what is here? It's all just so safe and middle-of-the-road. "Silent Spring" is good, but the rest is forgettable.

    Henry
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  13. #163
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    I don't hate Talk but rarely listen to it nowadays. I really like The Calling, though.

  14. #164
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I know a lot of people like Talk. I never understand what they hear in it. I love 90125 and Big Generator, and generally prefer the YesWest tracks on Union, so I'm not hostile to another YesWest album. But what is here? It's all just so safe and middle-of-the-road. "Silent Spring" is good, but the rest is forgettable.

    Henry
    Get stoned and throw on headphones at night. Worked for me. I listened to it critically from a production and engineering standpoint, it contains a shit ton of musical detail which I appreciate. Rabin is no beginner - he knows his shit. He is in total control of his vision on this...this wasn't just haphazardly thrown together. Far from the greatest Yes album but I would place it in the "keep" pile. There are some in the "dogshit" pile too. Jon sounds as good as he ever sounds on this too.

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Get stoned and throw on headphones at night. Worked for me. I listened to it critically from a production and engineering standpoint, it contains a shit ton of musical detail which I appreciate. Rabin is no beginner - he knows his shit. He is in total control of his vision on this...this wasn't just haphazardly thrown together. Far from the greatest Yes album but I would place it in the "keep" pile. There are some in the "dogshit" pile too. Jon sounds as good as he ever sounds on this too.
    I can hear it wasn't haphazardly done. I can hear that everything is exactly as Rabin wanted it. But why does Rabin want a bunch of bland melodies and simple arrangements? I can barely even remember "I Am Waiting", "State of Play" or "Where will You Be", and I've listened to this album loads. "Walls" is at least quite catchy, and "Real Love" has an OK Squire part. A big problem I have with this album is the frequent absence of Squire, White and Kaye.

    Henry
    Last edited by bondegezou; 08-02-2021 at 02:42 AM.
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  16. #166
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    PS...to my ears its not a million miles away from his solo album Can't Look Away of which I grew up with. Definitely an improved production and also benefits from Jon and Squires vocals (and bass). I can sort of view it as a Rabin album with special guests Yesguys on it, although I hear Jon's ideas on this too. I can care less about the drama surrounding this band...if the music is cool I'm in. If not then I'm not. I even like ABWH with occasional cheeseball synth patches notwithstanding, but that's a different story.

    This album has sort of finished the Rabin arc starting with 90125 and ending here. All in all I view this era more fondly in retrospect with 2021 ears.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I know a lot of people like Talk. I never understand what they hear in it. I love 90125 and Big Generator, and generally prefer the YesWest tracks on Union, so I'm not hostile to another YesWest album. But what is here? It's all just so safe and middle-of-the-road. "Silent Spring" is good, but the rest is forgettable.

    Henry
    IMHO "Side 1" of Talk (the first four songs) is really well constructed proggy AOR. Memorable hooks. Attention to detail. Well produced. "Side 2" is a little more iffy, but that's where I think the live versions help. On the boots I mention above Endless Dream comes alive in a way that the studio version does not. If you haven't done so yet, download some of those Talk boots from yessongs.nl and see if they improve your view of the Talk studio album.

    To each his own of course but I would rate the YesWest period from best to worst as 90125 > Talk > BG > 1/2 Union.

  18. #168
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    PS...to my ears its not a million miles away from his solo album Can't Look Away of which I grew up with. Definitely an improved production and also benefits from Jon and Squires vocals (and bass). I can sort of view it as a Rabin album with special guests Yesguys on it, although I hear Jon's ideas on this too. I can care less about the drama surrounding this band...if the music is cool I'm in. If not then I'm not. I even like ABWH with occasional cheeseball synth patches notwithstanding, but that's a different story.

    This album has sort of finished the Rabin arc starting with 90125 and ending here. All in all I view this era more fondly in retrospect with 2021 ears.
    I hate Can't Look Away but Talk is pretty good. And much better than Big Generator!
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    IMHO "Side 1" of Talk (the first four songs) is really well constructed proggy AOR. Memorable hooks. Attention to detail. Well produced. "Side 2" is a little more iffy, but that's where I think the live versions help. On the boots I mention above Endless Dream comes alive in a way that the studio version does not. If you haven't done so yet, download some of those Talk boots from yessongs.nl and see if they improve your view of the Talk studio album.

    To each his own of course but I would rate the YesWest period from best to worst as 90125 > Talk > BG > 1/2 Union.
    I'll have to check out that Talk tour on YT from the South Side of the Sky Channel. Endless Dream studio is the best thing on here imo so I'm curious to hear the live version. I think it totally works on the album and is the best track this band ever did along with Final Eyes, Shoot High, I'm Running, Holy Lamb, Leave It, Hold On, and Hearts.

  20. #170
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I can hear it wasn't haphazardly done. I can hear that everything is exactly as Rabin wanted it. But why does Rabin want a bunch of bland melodies and simple arrangements? I can barely even remember "I Am Waiting", "State of Play" or "Where will You Be", and I've listened to this album loads. "Walls" is at least quite catchy, and "Real Love" has an OK Squire part. A big problem I have with this album is the frequent absence of Squire, White and Kaye.

    Henry

    Henry
    That's cool. We all hear things differently. Maybe I have the benefit of hearing this as virtually a new Yes album, so I didn't have any history attached here? I dunno.

    Kaye is irrelevant to me - I haven't really heard him play anything since the Yes album anyway Doesn't Rabin play all keys on these albums anyway? (serious question). Squire is definitely present here and White's kit is so over the top - I read something like 27 mics and many GB of HD space for his tracks alone. He can't be ignored here if you tried!

  21. #171
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    I recognise 'The Calling', 'I Am Waiting' and 'Real Love' as good AOR songs. 'Endless Dream' has some good things within it but it doesn't cohere. I admit I have not heard a live version.

    The middle part of the album is very poor IMHO. I particularly hate that pitch-bend thing in 'State Of Play'.

  22. #172
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Tried giving this a play after not having heard it in years. I had to turn it off within five minutes--couldn't take any more of that ham-fisted, whomping drumbeat. Not what I come to prog music for.

  23. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    That's cool. We all hear things differently. Maybe I have the benefit of hearing this as virtually a new Yes album, so I didn't have any history attached here? I dunno.

    Kaye is irrelevant to me - I haven't really heard him play anything since the Yes album anyway Doesn't Rabin play all keys on these albums anyway? (serious question). Squire is definitely present here and White's kit is so over the top - I read something like 27 mics and many GB of HD space for his tracks alone. He can't be ignored here if you tried!
    I'm pretty sure that's Rabin on the keys for Talk.

    This was one of the first 2 Yes albums I bought as a teenager (the other being Fragile), and I loved it. Especially "The Calling", "State of Play" and "Endless Dream". It's not an album I revisit very much, but when I do I still enjoy it. Doesn't rank quite as high as 90125 or Big Generator for me, but I'm glad it exists and that it's in my collection.

    White sounds so good here, I think. Sounds like he's really hammering those drums, and I love it.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    it doesn't seem possible that 1994 was twenty years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    The twenty years thing blows my mind too.
    ...and now it's 27 years. How is the time going so quickly?

    I've always said that during the time Rabin was in Yes, he was the best thing about them. Rabin haters don't like hearing that, but I have yet to hear a contrary argument that proves me wrong. He was certainly the most focused and the most dedicated to the albums he wrote and appeared on.
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  25. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's Rabin on the keys for Talk.

    This was one of the first 2 Yes albums I bought as a teenager (the other being Fragile), and I loved it. Especially "The Calling", "State of Play" and "Endless Dream". It's not an album I revisit very much, but when I do I still enjoy it. Doesn't rank quite as high as 90125 or Big Generator for me, but I'm glad it exists and that it's in my collection.

    White sounds so good here, I think. Sounds like he's really hammering those drums, and I love it. [emoji38]
    Isn't Kaye only credited on Hammond Organ? And I can hear it all over the place, so there's plenty of Kaye on this album. The rest of the keys, including piano and synths, are all Rabin though.

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