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Thread: Prog in unlikely places

  1. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    NP. Well, he was pretty mainstream in the 80s. You couldn't have been growing up then and not know about Peter Gabriel. I'm not sure how known he is among most people these days but he's probably more known to more people than Yes.
    Younger folks today aren't taken at all by the subject individual behind artistic statements, as they believe most to constitute mere reference (as in sampling or fragmental cutout) and deem the handywork according to treats of techniques in trade. It does NOT impress youngsters today that a rock group of five musicians in 1973 could actually compose by formal standards of requirements from "above" and fart out some rendition of classical-versus-rock'n'roll. Consequently, they're rarely focused on the name of the performer/creator - but rather on the weight of the work in question.

    They know "Biko" or "Sledgehammer" and particularly "Solsbury Hill" by points of association and effect in media culture, but they're easily alienated by the very idea of a phenomenon like Genesis or Yes or indeed ELP as bands. And it's not because they don't "get it", it's due to a completely natural law of cultural evolution as to why certain ideas in art prevail while others fail.

    Our era - that of post-war generational outlining in collective charge and histrionics - is essentially over and done with. Rock music will not be remembered, and "prog" was only a tiny part of it.
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  2. #327
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    ^Younger prog fans (of which there are plenty but still not the majority by any means) notwithstanding, I definitely concur. Peter Gabriel, though, transcended the genre like most of the big names so I do think even a good number of younger folks know him if only for the songs you mentioned but maybe not much else.
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  3. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Peter Gabriel, though, transcended the genre like most of the big names
    Agree.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  4. #329
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    NP. Well, he was pretty mainstream in the 80s. You couldn't have been growing up then and not know about Peter Gabriel. I'm not sure how known he is among most people these days but he's probably more known to more people than Yes.
    True, but I think the majority of people then, while they knew of Gabriel, didn’t know he had anything to do with Genesis.
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  5. #330
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    I remember in the late 80s when Dennis Miller was the host of SNL's Weekend Update, he made a joke about shaving his head like 'Peter Gabriel circa 1972' and showed a photo of PG with the missing patch of hair.
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  6. #331
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    True, but I think the majority of people then, while they knew of Gabriel, didn’t know he had anything to do with Genesis.

    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think by the time Peter Gabriel released SO most people(at least those who were fans of both) knew he was with Genesis especially since Genesis were very big around the same time. Maybe only the most casual fans didn't know but I think anyone who bought albums by either one probably knew. In fact I can't imagine them not knowing since I think it was pretty well publicized who he was.
    Last edited by Digital_Man; 05-15-2022 at 10:31 PM.
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  7. #332
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ Gotta go with Jed on that one.

  8. #333
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    ^ Gotta go with Jed on that one.
    As they say, "agree to disagree." I suppose it doesn't really matter much anyway though (especially if we are talking about what people thought over 30 years ago ).
    Last edited by Digital_Man; 05-15-2022 at 08:06 PM.
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  9. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    I remember in the late 80s when Dennis Miller was the host of SNL's Weekend Update, he made a joke about shaving his head like 'Peter Gabriel circa 1972' and showed a photo of PG with the missing patch of hair.
    When Dennis hosted Weekend Update they would play tunes like Spirit "I Got A Line On You" or Edgar Winter Group "Frankenstein" leading into his segment. I gather he liked old psych/prog era rock stuff that had become obscure by the time he was on that show.

  10. #335
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post
    When Dennis hosted Weekend Update they would play tunes like Spirit "I Got A Line On You" or Edgar Winter Group "Frankenstein" leading into his segment. I gather he liked old psych/prog era rock stuff that had become obscure by the time he was on that show.
    Well, he was the right age to have witnessed the first wave of prog as a young man so I'm not surprised. I remember him mentioning Brian Eno and VDGG when he had his own talk show(briefly).
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  11. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    True, but I think the majority of people then, while they knew of Gabriel, didn’t know he had anything to do with Genesis.
    I would agree with that. Most people had no clue about that stuff. This something a lot of art rock fans don't get. Just because you or I got into Genesis in the 80's, and then back tracked and picked up the old records, doesn't mean everybody did that. And quite frankly, I'm inclined to believe most of the people who made Genesis so successful didn't followup on their earlier records. They bought the singles they heard on the radio or saw on MTV, or at best, just the albums those songs were on, and that was it. And I imagine when they launched into stuff like the In The Cage medley or Home By The Sea in concert, there were a whole lot of audience members saying, "The hell is this stuff?!".

    And I think that's true of a lot of bands. I forget who it was from Pink Floyd, but I remember readnig an article in Rolling Stone in the late 80's where one of them said he was recently doing an interview, at towards the end, he just happened to mention Syd Barrett, and the interviewer had no idea who he was talking about. And again, I think a lot of the people who bought Dark Side Of The Moon and The Wall, had no idea Pink Floyd had made seven albums before DSOTM, and even fewer knew about the five non-album singles, and fewer still knew about all the other stuff they had done, e.g. soundtrack work and whatever.

    I remember when Def Leppard did the Storyetellers show on VH-1, and someone in the audience asked why they never play anything from their first album live, and Joe Elliott basically gave two reasons, one of which was, if they played Hello America or Rock Brigade or Wasted live, in any given audience there'll be about 100 people go "YEAH!" and 19,000 people giong "What the hell is this?".

    I sort of understand it, though I fail to comprehend how anyone can like a band enough to buy a record, but then not check out the rest of their catalog. But then, as one of the managers at one of my old jobs once said, "Yeah, but you're different, Chris". (shrug)

    BTW, I remember there was a poitn I guess whenever Gabriel did his most recent album, which must have been something like 10 years ago, now, he did Letterman> And after doing whichever song he did, they do the sit down bit, and Dave pulls out some photos. As I recall, the first was Peter in the fox outfit, and I think the second one was the Slipperman costume. WHen Peter tried to explain the Slipperman, saying that he has "inflatable genitalia" or something like that, Dave then says "OK, we have to go to a break", as if to suggest Peter had "stepped over the line" or whatever. I'm not even sure they mentioned Genesis, Dave just pulls out the photos, and we're to assume this what Peter used to do onstage. But that's one of the only times I've seen Peter on TV, where that topic is even brought up.

  12. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think by the time Peter Gabriel released SO most people knew he was with Genesis especially since Genesis were very big around the same time..
    Genesis being very big has nothing to do with. You're assuming that people who buy multiplatinum selling records are the kind of who delve into the past of the people who made said hit record, and I don't think that's necessarily the case. I don't think most of the people who made Sledgehammer and Big Time such big hits were astute to realize that Peter got his start with Genesis. At least, not STateside they didn't. Maybe in the UK or Italy, it was different.

    And likewise, I don't think most of the people who made Invisible Touch, In Too Deep, Illegal Alien, etc such big hits and made it possible for Genesis to sell out American football stadiums really knew that anyone other than Phil Collins was ever the lead singer of Genesis.

    And you can forget about most of those people even knowing about Steve Hackett or Ant Phillips.

  13. #338
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    It's human nature to think that most people are more or less like you. Most of the time, that's not really the case, and in the case of us music diehards, it definitely isn't. We love music. We obsess over it. We listen to it, watch it, and when we're not doing that, we read about it and talk about it. That is a million miles away from how the average citizen approaches music. Most people use music as a soundtrack at best. Background music for their life activities. They know song titles moreso than the artists who made the music, and they certainly don't know their history. At the risk of drawing incoming, based on experience and observation, I would say this especially applies to women, who made up a large chunk of Genesis' 80s fan base. The question of Gabriel's post-So "fans" knowing his history is a pretty easy call, imo.

  14. #339
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    As they say, "agree to disagree." I suppose it doesn't really matter much anyway though (especially if we are talking about what people thought over 30 years ago ).
    When I said "most people" I meant "most people," not just most Genesis fans.
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  15. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Most people use music as a soundtrack at best. Background music for their life activities. They know song titles moreso than the artists who made the music, and they certainly don't know their history.
    They also have no idea who was in this or that band. They don't really know or care that Jon Anderson isn't in Yes, they're just going to the concert so they can hear Owner Of A Lonely Heart and maybe three or four other songs they know from the radio live. Same reason why there were two versions of Asia on the road, for awhile, because nobody cares that John Payne wasn't the original lead singer (and didn't have anyone else from the original band in his group), they just wanted to hear Heat Of The Moment and Only Time Will Tell.

  16. #341
    Member Munster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Most people use music as a soundtrack at best. Background music for their life activities. They know song titles moreso than the artists who made the music, and they certainly don't know their history.
    I agree. And this is one of the reasons why streaming services are so successful
    You ask, in uncertain voice, what you should do / As if there were a choice / But to carry on / Miming the song / And hope that it all works out right

  17. #342
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    When I said "most people" I meant "most people," not just most Genesis fans.
    Most people aren't much into music anyway so who cares what they think?
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  18. #343
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    They also have no idea who was in this or that band. They don't really know or care that Jon Anderson isn't in Yes, they're just going to the concert so they can hear Owner Of A Lonely Heart and maybe three or four other songs they know from the radio live. Same reason why there were two versions of Asia on the road, for awhile, because nobody cares that John Payne wasn't the original lead singer (and didn't have anyone else from the original band in his group), they just wanted to hear Heat Of The Moment and Only Time Will Tell.
    Not only that, they want to hear Roundabout and Owner note for note the way it is on the record. In the 70s and 80s, the band took far more liberty playing these songs.
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  19. #344
    I remember even some people I've known who have good knowledge of various musical styles seemed to think Phil Collins was just a ballad singer and were surprised when I pulled out a Brian Eno CD where he played drums or a Brand X record where he did jazz fusion.

  20. #345
    Back to Prog in Unlikely Places - in the Netflix series Russian Doll, I heard a big chunk Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond as incidental music. This was in Season 2, Episode 7 (season finale).

  21. #346
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twelfth Earl of Mar View Post
    Back to Prog in Unlikely Places - in the Netflix series Russian Doll, I heard a big chunk Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond as incidental music. This was in Season 2, Episode 7 (season finale).
    I see you live in Lansdale. Do you remember the Prism brewery? They used to play whole PF albums there on Floyd Fridays. I think they played part of Ummagumma one time. Unfortunately, they closed down several years ago. I was only there once or twice.
    You can't take a photograph of Uzis on a street corner.

  22. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    I see you live in Lansdale. Do you remember the Prism brewery? They used to play whole PF albums there on Floyd Fridays. I think they played part of Ummagumma one time. Unfortunately, they closed down several years ago. I was only there once or twice.
    No. I pass that strip mall quite often, and I have seen the Prism sign, but never really knew what it was.

  23. #348
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twelfth Earl of Mar View Post
    No. I pass that strip mall quite often, and I have seen the Prism sign, but never really knew what it was.
    Strange that the sign is still there since it closed down over 4 years ago now.

    Edit: I'm not sure we are thinking of the same place since I don't remember it being near any strip mall. I remember it being in residential neighborhood in the back of a building and you couldn't see the sign from any main road I don't think. But maybe they moved at one point. Not sure.
    Last edited by Digital_Man; 05-17-2022 at 09:47 AM.
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  24. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Strange that the sign is still there since it closed down over 4 years ago now.
    There's a Cold Stone Creamery near me that closed about 8 years ago, and their sign is still in front of the vacant building.

  25. #350
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    I knew who Peter Gabriel was when I was in high-school (he was the Shock The Monkey and Games Without Frontiers guy) and I knew of Genesis (Misunderstanding and ABACAB). I was in bootcamp early '80s when I was informed there was a connection. Then someone told me that the Genesis singer did the In The Air Tonight song (mind blown). I still run into people who doesn't know the connection twixt Genesis or the guy who sang the Tarzan soundtrack or the guy who did Sledgehammer. And at this point in time, they only find it mildly interesting.

    Hell, I never heard of Brand X until about 20 years ago.

    But then again I can only name one Kardashian or no one from any reality show.

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