Yes in Glasgow

[Stevie B]

I'm not saying the "tempos thing" doesn't exist - however I'm agreeing that it is way overblown. Terms like "embarrassing", "funereal tempos", "painfully slow" etc - all from this thread - just don't stand up to any critical examination of the facts. This came up in another thread a few weeks ago and as I had some time on my hands I did a comparison of the first few minutes of Siberian Khatru on a youtube clip versus the studio version. I think it came out that the 2014 version was about 2 seconds per minute slower than either the studio version or the Yessongs version. So, slower - but funereal? Painful? In the ears of the beholder I suppose.

As I said on that other thread, I think the differing styles of White v Bruford can make tempos seem slower than they are - well that's my theory anyway. And of course maybe the band make an aesthetic choice to slow things down on some songs or sections. Bottom line is it's their songs and they can do what they like - and of course people are free to hate it if they like

[Paulrus]

Reviews:

Glasgow: **** http://www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/mu...sgow-1-3398674
Newcastle: **** http://www.thejournal.co.uk/culture/...y-hall-7073995
Birmingham: **** http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/what...y-hall-7073491

Thanks, Henry. All positive reviews. I though this bit from the Newcastle review summed things up:

You can laugh – many have – but this gig was a revelation, a reminder that this stuff didn’t once fill stadiums by accident. We heard music that merits its place on the concert circuit – that is often complex (some might say a bit pretentious on occasion) but, when played this well, still compelling.

[Sunlight Caller]

Would I go back & see them again? On this performance, I would say YES.

I saw the gig in Southend last week and thought it was excellent, I was totally won over by the new Jon who gave certain songs an injection of fire that has been lacking in recent excursions, he even seems to have bored Jon's old wardrobe for the gig!

Would I go back and see them again? ... Well today I just picked up tickets for the Albert Hall on Thursday, so I guess they impressed me more than I expected them to, as I have not missed a London gig in probably decades, but was planning on sitting this one out.

[per anporth]

I think this highlights the diff between Hackett's Genesis Revisited tour, which looked and sounded like million bucks, and Wilson's tours, which did the same.

Unless Yes is playing this material at anywhere near tempo, I've no interest in seeing this tour, especially after hearing they couldn't even invest in some decent sound and lighting. One buy posted about dancing around to Roundabout.llmust have been a slow dance, at least of they were playing it at the tempo they've been doing it at the past couple decades.

I'm sorry, but I love Yes as much as anyone...at least, back in the day. I f ever there were a band ready for retirement it's Yes. They look bad (Squire really has to learn to dress for his weight), they play songs at funereal tempos, they have a singer who, while good, ain't the real deal and is only marginally better than having someone from a Yes tribute band, as they did with David (in this case from a band who is really influenced by Yes, instead)...and,at one point, the son of a legacy era keyboardist...though, truth be told, I'd rather see Oliver Wakeman than Downes any day of the week. For one thing, having met Oliver with the Strawbs a few years ago, he was a gracious and nice guy, and not the nasty blogger that Downes has been,k at least at times (maybe he's lightened up....I don't pay attention any more).

But bottom line, IMO, both from original material and even performing the old classics, Yes seems way last it's best buy date. When there are groups like Hackett doing real justice to Genesis, Van der Graaf not just doing great new material but who knew they'd add plague of lighthouse keepers to their recent set lists....and play it so damn well?!!

There are so many other alternatives to Yes that do a better job at what they do that I just cannot see how Yes can hold their heads up these days. I'd be embarrassed, frankly, to be doing what they're doing. Sometimes it's best to quit while you're ahead....for Yes, that was a long, long time ago, and it pains me to have to say that as they were one of my true heroes at one point in my life.....

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, John.

It's a bit bleak when *so* many wonderful records are being released, in so many genres affiliated to prog, that a dull dud like FFH could dominate so much of the discussion hereabouts.

[battema]

Ummmmmmm....so....

Never saw Yes with BD, missed that set of tours. But I did catch one of the shows with Davison before they started the 3-Album thing. Was excited to hear the FFH suite live. Overall I thought the show was so-so...to be honest the weakest player was Howe, who seemed to be fighting against the others on tempo. Which in and of itself was fine, except he also started fighting against the BACKING tracks...which no matter how much he may scowl at them, they aren't gonna slow down.

I think Yes turned out a fantastic late-career album with Fly from Here, and I am genuinely enthusiastic to hear what they have done on Heaven & Earth. But for me personally, having seen them umpteen times since the Talk tour, I don't really feel a great desire to see them live anymore. However...that isn't to say that I think they ought to quit and give up. Clearly folks are still going out and paying to see them, and apparently enjoying themselves. That's awesome, really...most of us who perform will only ever dream of being lucky enough to keep going out and playing to those audiences at their age. I wish them well, even if I will probably stick to their studio output going forward.

[bondegezou]

Leicester review: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Re...ail/story.html

Henry

[Progtastic]

The review of Leicester says sold out, it wasn't, At the back of the stalls there was quite a lot of empty sets. Or perhaps a coach broke down somewhere and 50 or so never made it?

[gearHed289]

he also started fighting against the BACKING tracks...which no matter how much he may scowl at them, they aren't gonna slow down.

They're using backing tracks???

[battema]

They're using backing tracks???

During portions of the FFH suite, they were, yes.

[Yeswave]

During portions of the FFH suite, they were, yes.

I agree and I think it would be a shame if FFH, or at least bits of it were never played live again and that goes for Into The Storm as well. Although thinking about it the last track to make it beyond the supporting tour for that album was The Rhythm of Love and that came out in 1987.(Mind Drive doesn't count).

[Mikhael]

I'm not saying the "tempos thing" doesn't exist - however I'm agreeing that it is way overblown. Terms like "embarrassing", "funereal tempos", "painfully slow" etc - all from this thread - just don't stand up to any critical examination of the facts. This came up in another thread a few weeks ago and as I had some time on my hands I did a comparison of the first few minutes of Siberian Khatru on a youtube clip versus the studio version. I think it came out that the 2014 version was about 2 seconds per minute slower than either the studio version or the Yessongs version. So, slower - but funereal? Painful? In the ears of the beholder I suppose.

As I said on that other thread, I think the differing styles of White v Bruford can make tempos seem slower than they are - well that's my theory anyway. And of course maybe the band make an aesthetic choice to slow things down on some songs or sections. Bottom line is it's their songs and they can do what they like - and of course people are free to hate it if they like

Playing it slow is one thing. But slowing one part down then having another member try to bring it back to speed (Downes) was actually a bit embarrassing. And it was Steve slowing it down. Listen to vids of the first tours with BD to hear just how weird it got. I've noticed it for years, and it's generally not too bad, but occasionally it goes beyond reason. But this isn't *every* show; that much must be made clear. It's a few bad nights that made it to YouTube.

[bondegezou]

Although thinking about it the last track to make it beyond the supporting tour for that album was The Rhythm of Love and that came out in 1987.(Mind Drive doesn't count).

"Magnification" and "In the Presence of".

Henry

[Yeswave]

"Magnification" and "In the Presence of".

Henry

I think I'm going to say they don't count either as they only made it as far as the 2 tours after Magnification before another album had been released and didn't get as far as the 35th Anniversary tour - but then they played Time Is Time on that tour...oh well. Apart from all those ones the last one was Rhythm Of Love.

[bondegezou]

I think I'm going to say they don't count either as they only made it as far as the 2 tours after Magnification before another album had been released and didn't get as far as the 35th Anniversary tour - but then they played Time Is Time on that tour...oh well. Apart from all those ones the last one was Rhythm Of Love.

"Masquerade", "The Meeting".

Henry

[bRETT]

I think I'm going to say they don't count either as they only made it as far as the 2 tours after Magnification before another album had been released and didn't get as far as the 35th Anniversary tour - but then they played Time Is Time on that tour...oh well. Apart from all those ones the last one was Rhythm Of Love.

"Fly From Here" (the song, not the suite) was played on two tours, yes? Three if you also count the Drama tour.

[Beebfader]

Well I saw them I Sheffield tonight and they were great. All this stuff about tempo is really not an issue...they seemed to be up to speed for me. I had almost forgotten how magnificent Steve Howe is, the emotion in his playing, the wonderful technical achievements of those compositions. I must admit I was there on someone's ticket who couldn't make it, but I don't regret a minute of it, the new Jon was great, he really brought a fresh youthful delivery. Chris was magnificent especially when he strapped on the Rickenbacker for the Yes album. OK, maybe Alan White was somewhat underwhelming, and Geoff Downes is not exactly Rick Wakeman, but they brought this great music alive once more, and really what's not to like ? It was amazing to hear the three albums in order, a real treat. Two and a half hours of magnificence !

[jkelman]

Since some folks here are taking me to task on my assessment of Yes vis-a-vis tempo, a couple examples. These are taken from Calgary, Canada and the Cruise to the Edge:

1. Perpetual Change: admittedly not too slow, but Howe is, in the intro, a good example of a noticeable problem as he constantly drags the time, so that when the band is in the pool there's a constant push and pull for synchronous tempo, resulting in them being out of synch with each other and, at least to me, in a very annoying way: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fsRp-IQCrlI

2. Yours is No Disgrace: not funereal either, but slowed down enough to feel draggy. It doesn't have to be played at 2/3 speed to feel funereal, btw; just enough to take away the edge and excitement. But again, however, Howe is constantly dragging, so the band often feels sloppily out of synch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eUkGY7XChY0

3. America: another example of Steve's inability to keep up with the tempo causing the band to sound, once again, annnoyingly sloppy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gIWm8x6i8X8

Again, tempo isn't that bad, so I'll take back my comment about funereal tempos for the 2014 tour and replace it with: the band is bringing the tunes back to at least within spitting distance of original tempos, but Howe is constantly behind the rest of them, so that some of the complex contrapuntal and/or unison lines simply end up sounding very, very sloppy. In some ways, playing the songs slower would at least allow everyone to be playing in the same tempo, rather than struggling to find parity.

So, my feelings are still the same: I'd not waste my money on a Yes show, just for a different reason. Frankly, I'll bet Yes tribute bands sound a lot better if only because they can play tightly together, which Yes seems largely incapable of doing anymore.

Sorry guys, but this is empirical stuff. Whether it bothers you enough to care is up to you, but these are three pieces of evidence that demonstrate Yes' current problem as a live band.

.And one other thought: sometimes the excitement of being at a show results in missing some of its deficiencies...but when looked at again after the fact, in this case on YouTube, those deficiencies become much more obvious....and one thing is certain: the only way any of these examples could be released on a live album would be for Howe to go into the studio and fix his parts.

Sad, but true. Again, to reiterate: I wish I didn't have to report this, as Yes was, at one time, a hero of mine, but no longer, as a band at this level of fame and reputation should sure be able to pull off proper tempos, with everyone playing comfortably in those tempos. If not, then it's time to quit while you're ahead....though with Yes, it's now too late for that.

John

[JJ88]

"Empirical stuff"? "Evidence"? It's a music forum, not a court of law! You yourself qualify this "evidence" with "admittedly not too slow", "not funereal either" and "tempo isn't that bad"!

I'm not a Yes fanboy. They have made many head-scratching decisions over the years. They don't play as well as they did but hardly as bad as is always mentioned here, and Alan White never matched what Bill Bruford played even in the 70s IMHO- that has always made this material seem slower. To see a really funereal tempo, look at that recent clip of Keith Emerson's band doing 'Tarkus', where it could hardly be any slower. (And I know the reasons why.)

Some of those clips are so swamped with echo it's hard to hear much either way. It's certainly clear to me just how good Jon Davison is on this material, though.

[Yeswave]

"Masquerade", "The Meeting".

Henry

Steve Howe solo's definitely don't count and I don't want to start a debate whether The Meeting is a Yes tune. It is by the way, but I'm going to say it doesn't count anyway.

[Stevie B]

Sorry guys, but this is empirical stuff. Whether it bothers you enough to care is up to you, but these are three pieces of evidence that demonstrate Yes' current problem as a live band.

John

No, this is your opinion - which of course you are entitled to. Empirical evidence would be "This song is played at 104bpm on the record as shown here and they now play it at 96bpm as shown here.

Personally, I've never thought Yes were the slickest live band in the world. They often teetered on the edge of chaos, even in their early days, and occasionally descended into it. I can think of a couple of times I've seen them where they've had to stop and start again or got pretty lost midway through a song and had to drag themselves back together.

None of that bothers me. I always thought that a Yes concert is a bit like a talking dog - the impressive thing is not that they can do it so well, but that they can do it at all. I'm sorry I missed the Glasgow show - I meant to see about getting last minute tickets, but the show just sneaked up on me and I forgot about it until I saw this thread. They sound absolutely fine to me - obviously not with the fire they had in the early seventies, but they are playing as well as they have at any time in the last say twenty years as far as I can hear.

[tom unbound]

Some of those clips are so swamped with echo it's hard to hear much either way. It's certainly clear to me just how good Jon Davison is on this material, though.

Jon is great with all the old material, I can't wait to hear the new stuff. Don't ya just hate the bitching, crying, whining posts from people who didn't even see the show ???

Tickets to "Downes' Island" available soon. 'No Jon, no Yes' people get free cabin upgrade.

[Sunlight Caller]

Setting off for the RAH soon, few pre-gig beers in the Imperial College bar to look forwards too. Anybody else this side of the pond going? Are there any other London Yes-heads left on PE apart from myself and Henry, there used to be quite a few?

[andypashley]

Setting off for the RAH soon, few pre-gig beers in the Imperial College bar to look forwards too. Anybody else this side of the pond going? Are there any other London Yes-heads left on PE apart from myself and Henry, there used to be quite a few?

Yep, I'll be there.

Andy

[squ1ggle]

Setting off for the RAH soon, few pre-gig beers in the Imperial College bar to look forwards too. Anybody else this side of the pond going? Are there any other London Yes-heads left on PE apart from myself and Henry, there used to be quite a few?

yes, I should be there too (traffic permitting)

[Paulrus]

I always thought that a Yes concert is a bit like a talking dog - the impressive thing is not that they can do it so well, but that they can do it at all.

LMFAO