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Thread: Emerson, Lake & Palmer on being Excessively

  1. #101
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    I forgot to add to my above post:

    So not only were they basically doing an album every 9 months or so, they were also touring heavily

    ELP did 99/100/101 (depends on the source) Brain Salad Surgery shows in 9 months, and while that's not anywhere near Iron Maiden's World Slavery Tour (187 shows in 11 months), that's still pretty impressive. How often do the neo-bands even tour?
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  2. #102
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    ^Now, to be fair, none of the neo bands are even close to ELP's level of popularity to be able to tour regularly. Marillion had their moment in the 80s of genuine success, but that was a long time ago. They do still play decent venues here in the UK though, still able to push their new music in their concerts and without touring with other artists as part of those 80s revival package tours.

  3. #103
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    Sure, to compare The Big 5/6/7 to IQ et al. is an apples/oranges thing, but just to clarify the point I was trying to make: sure, ELP had 4 good years, King Crimson had 5 etc. but they packed in more albums and touring in those short spans than the neo-bands have done over a whole career. That's why I'm kinda in awe of what the Big 5/6/7 achieved, for them to be make a great string of albums like they did from ca. 1970 > 1975 while touring like crazy is pretty incredible.

    I just wish IQ would come back to the US again.......
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  4. #104
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    And I think that the fanbases of the neo/retro groups have their part to play in that more than anything. They want that same sound over and over again and these bands have to go with that, being 'cottage industries'. So all this 'could this be their best album yet' stuff is like preaching to the converted in that sense. I personally bailed out on all those bands years ago,
    Yeah I agree with this. I stopped feeling the need to get every new Flower Kings or Spocks Beard album that came out years ago. I have enough already by both those bands and they've both put out so many albums in the last 8-10 years that I'd have to spend a fortune to catch up with them. On top of that, I'll never see those bands live anyway so I lost interest many years ago. On top of that I always approach with caution when the old guard releases a new album. You read comments like "a return to form" or "their newest triumph" etc. and you know from experience that it's all an excersize in futility. I'm as curious as any Yes fan to hear what the new album will sound like but will only buy it if the majority of the reviews are positive and after I've heard a bunch of tracks from it.

  5. #105
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    Well the popularity certainly has a lot to do with it. Echolyn for instance was "full-time" in their first few years - their first three albums (which is like, 5 LPs worth of material) are great and were all done in about a 4-5 year span (As the World was completed in 1994). I mean these guys really *wanted* to crank out stuff every year if they could but things just didn't break. Now they have day jobs - I know for instance that Buzby is a music teacher, Kull works a lot in the studio for other groups, etc. They don't have the luxuries that ELP or Yes had. I imagine IQ is similar. Though I will point out that Glass Hammer and Steve Wilson seem to be constantly cranking out material. Now exactly how innovative this stuff is is up for debate - I agree that the FKs are kind of in a rut but Glass Hammer does change things up enough to make each release interesting and exciting. I agree that not much of this is as "wild" as somethng like BSS or Relayer or Red would've sounded at the time (you would have to look to Cardiacs, or Ruins, or Max Tundra for that kind of thing), but they do a lot of high quality work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender View Post
    I'd certainly put Brain Salad Surgery, Relayer, Red, Free Hand and The Lamb far above anything the bands you mentioned have released.
    I imagine a lot of people feel this way but I've been listening a lot to albums like Lex Rex, Cowboy Poems Free, and The Wake lately and even if none of them are exactly innovative (though CPF does have a lot of sounds you just don't hear in prog, which is awesome), I think all those are awesome and on par with the albums mentioned.
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  6. #106
    You can't talk about Emerson without including his Nice output, so, add another 4 LPs (discounting the first song-orientated one).

  7. #107
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    For me The Nice was a different animal..their regular "rondos" are probably the weariest prog related music I've ever heard. But they did some great songs either.
    The Five Bridges Suite was I believe Emerson's first touch of big form - rather weak attempt, IMO. Not even close to "Barbarian" or Three Fates in terms of quality.

  8. #108
    Yes ... well... The Nice were merely incredibly awesome, while ELP were insanely great. I'll grant you that.

  9. #109
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    The Nice, with all respect, are nowhere near the ELP at their best years. It's like compare Tomorrow with Yes.. Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack is very good, IMO - and most consistant The Nice album..

  10. #110
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    I really like Ars Longa Vita Brevis (which IMO is the earliest LP that sounds like prog rock as we know it today), but the three after it (including Elegy) were really weak...like they just couldn't write songs altogether anymore.
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by grego View Post
    The Nice, with all respect, are nowhere near the ELP at their best years. It's like compare Tomorrow with Yes.. Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack is very good, IMO - and most consistant The Nice album..
    ^^^^THIS!

  12. #112
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    I was into The Nice before there was an ELP. I first discovered them when Jimi Hendrix said they were his favorite band. I loved the first two albums, great mix of pop, psych, proto-prog and silly but appealing "novelty" music. And of course, Emerson's virtuosity wasn't lost on me; I'd never heard anybody play keyboards like that in a rock band! I think it's kind of futile to compare them with ELP; they were indeed a different beast and I like 'em both, for different reasons. I do think Keith came a long way as a composer from "Emerlist Davjack" to BSS. But The Nice had some great, fun tunes. I particularly loved "Happy Freuds!" Too bad the mix was so dismal on that album.

    Quote Originally Posted by grego View Post
    their regular "rondos" are probably the weariest prog related music I've ever heard.
    I loved "Rondo" when I was a teen... until I heard the original tune that it was lifted from, Dave Brubeck's "Blue Rondo ala Turk." The Nice straightened it out to 4/4 and made it sound less like prog than Brubeck's composition did... in 1959! Compare this:



    to that:

  13. #113
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    though history hasn't been kind to them (how many casual prog fans even know who the Nice are? I was an ELP fan for nearly a decade before I knew about them), I can imagine how mindblowing they must've been at the time!
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  14. #114
    I'd gladly lay down cash for a thoughtfully done Ars Longa Vita Brevis remix. That album fascinates the hell out of me from start to finish. But I have great love for the third album also - I think the four studio cuts are super primo (For Example is fucking great especially), and dig the live cuts just fine (in spite of Brubeck ripoff. I was also pretty stunned when I first heard Brubeck's piece years after hearing the Nice's, but it was an important lesson about lionizing one's musical heroes too intensely, and I've made peace with enjoying the many good works of various thieves - I even still keep Zeppelin records in the house).

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    I think it's kind of futile to compare them with ELP; they were indeed a different beast and I like 'em both, for different reasons. I do think Keith came a long way as a composer from "Emerlist Davjack" to BSS. But The Nice had some great, fun tunes. I particularly loved "Happy Freuds!" Too bad the mix was so dismal on that album.
    Count me as a big fan of both ELP *and* The Nice.

    I guess I see a bigger link between the two. With ELP Emerson essentially swapped out the other two guys, while musically he continued from where he'd left off with The Nice. I agree the musical climate had changed a bit in the interim (mainly due to the arrival of King Crimson), but you can find direct links between ELP songs like "Take A Pebble" and Nice tracks like "Hang On To A Dream." Also, goofy Nice tunes like "One of Those People" became ELP songs like "Jeremy Bender".

    I think an argument can also be made that The Nice were the first true prog rock band, since they were doing stuff like "Azrael", and the "Ars Longa Vita Brevis" suite back in 1968. But that's a discussion for another thread.

    But I love how much looser The Nice were than ELP, although that -- and the mix of their albums -- was somewhat a product of their times and from their origins as PP Arnold's backing band.

    God bless Brian Davison (RIP) -- he could really play.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  16. #116
    Actually, my point wasn't meant as "Nice v ELP", but to build on JB's comment about ELP's "output". As Emerson was the primary composer and instrumentalist in both bands, the Nice have to be added to the equation.

    One wouldn't discount the first two Yes albums from their total. And, look at all the line-up changes KC, Yes, and Tull went through in the early '70s, not to mention how many extra contributors Yes and KC had in the composing chairs.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Scherze View Post
    Actually, my point wasn't meant as "Nice v ELP", but to build on JB's comment about ELP's "output". As Emerson was the primary composer and instrumentalist in both bands, the Nice have to be added to the equation.

    One wouldn't discount the first two Yes albums from their total. And, look at all the line-up changes KC, Yes, and Tull went through in the early '70s, not to mention how many extra contributors Yes and KC had in the composing chairs.
    it was a wonderful time, when everyone was willing to experiment, pushing the music beyond the edge of the envelope. It wasn't just prog, either. How things have changed to today (or really the past 25+ years) where everything is pre-programmed pap (the Union album stands out. Would Yes have even been ALLOWED to make a Fragile in the 1990s?).

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