Phil Collins
Steve Hackett
Roger Waters
David Gilmour
Now that's a line up I'd go an see: Pink Exodus.
Phil Collins
Steve Hackett
Roger Waters
David Gilmour
Now that's a line up I'd go an see: Pink Exodus.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
You have an interesting definition of "better" :-) I'm not saying that playing slower/lower automatically makes things better, I just think that these guys would come up with a way that makes the music sound even better, even if it's slower and lower. (For me, at least - if you only enjoy it if it's the same speed as back then, that show would not be for you. Which is fine, of course.)Originally Posted by Henning
Both TMB and Hackett do great shows, I've seen them both and will see Hackett again next month. But I'm sure the full band would come up with great ideas to make the music sound even better today than back then. And since this will never happen anyway, it will be difficult to convince me that they can't do it :-)
Henning
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
I don't think he was saying this at all. I think his sentiments are probably my own: is it POSSIBLE that re-arranging the catalog of material to accomodate the significant physical limitations of the players due to their advanced age COULD result in something that was also creatively satisfying for an audience? Sure, it's possible. Is it at all likely? No - when was the last time that music that was simplified, down-tuned and slowed down so that old men could perform it, something that benefitted the material? That being the case, we'd rather hear it performed by people capable of doing it justice - even if that means just re-creating the albums (personally I don't go in for tribute bands at all, for the reaon you cited, but I'd still pay to see that before I paid to see what the '70s Genesis lineup was capable of doing together in 2015 or 2016. I saw and generally liked the 2007 tour, but they can't even play at that level of intensity any more.
I've said it before - the second half of the '90s would have been a great time for this line-up to give it another go. But that ship sailed.
I was referring to what I understood to be the policy of The Musical Box - i.e. to re-create the studio albums as closely as possible. I've seen them do The Lamb, and they do indeed make a good job of it, but to be honest I found it a bit, well, boring. I've no idea what a reformed Genesis would be like. I saw the 2007 show on DVD and I can't say I noticed the slowed down tempos and key changes that people are complaining about, but then I don't have perfect pitch, so I doubt very much if I'd notice if something was down tuned by a tone.
^Many songs were downtuned but it didn't bother me- before someone dives in and says I'm a Genesis fanboy who makes excuses for them, I don't complain about the slower tempos in Yes songs either! I think that 2007 tour was a good way to go out after the rather ignominious end to the Ray Wilson line-up (an underperforming album and cancelled US tour). I appreciated the lower-key vocal performances of Phil Collins- he cut down some of the OTT adlibbing on things like 'Afterglow' and it was much closer to how it was when they first did it.
I remain realistic about what a reunion with PG would sound like musically, but it would be wonderful to have those guys together again. Even better if they did something new.
Exactly what Facelift is saying.
Read what I wrote carefully - I was talking more about Hackett's band and their performance. Yes, The Musical Box tries to re-create the studio albums and that has its place, but Hackett's performance is quite different from that and does stray somewhat and allows for interpretation. Look at Rob Townsend's contributions, for example.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Why is there so much outright hostility toward the idea of the G-men performing their own music again?
So they're older. Maybe they can't play as fast as they could in their 20s and 30s -- speed does not equal talent or quality. Does a person inherently become less of a musician somehow just by aging? Sheesh...
I did, and this is what I read:
I've haven't seen the Hackett Genesis shows, so I can't comment on them. I've confined my comments on this thread to The Musical Box, who I have seen.
I just missed the Gabriel era Genesis first time round, and I never thought I would see them together...and then Womad went tits up and they reformed for one show in Milton Keynes. Six of us squeezed into a tiny car and made an 800 mile round trip to stand in a muddy field in the pissing rain to see a clearly under-rehearsed Genesis with Gabriel fumble their way through their back catalogue, and it was great. The excitement of seeing the actual people involved in making the music first time around was palpable, and no covers band, no matter how meticulous and talented, could recreate that excitement for me. Others obviously feel differently...
Supports what I'm saying as well :-) I saw that tour, and I think it was fantastic. But with Gabriel & Hackett, I think they would do more re-arranging than they did in 2007, so that would be a different experience.
Anyway, I'm sure that - if they did something - I would completely be amazed by what they do. But I realize that other people see things differently, especially if slower tempos or downtuning bother you. And that's fair enough.
Henning
Just realize that you wouldn't be getting the equivalent of what might have happened had Gabriel and Hackett joined in 2007. You'd be getting them 8 years later - after Collins' back has been compromised, Gabriel has lost more of his voice and and everybody else deals generally with being 65.
It is where the matter of opinion is concerned. Particularly with regard to "the guy with the shot voice" -- I think Gabriel's voice has a different character than when he was younger, but is far from "shot", as you put it.
I'll concede on the subject of Phil. Obviously Phil's back injury makes any discussion of this moot anyway (but it's fun to dream nonetheless).
As for "the other two," I've yet to see evidence that Mike and Tony's musical abilities have diminished, at least to the degree you believe they have. They still play, they still write, they're still musicians. I thought the Live Over Europe and When In Rome releases from the 2007 tour were great -- but that's just my opinion. The idea that a musician should just "hang it up" simply because they've gotten older seems unfair.
I saw Gabriel last year, and I think his voice is fine - I'm not sure about Phil, sometimes one reads interviews where it seems he's getting better, but I'm not sure whether he really can play (but I'm only talking about a situation where he would *choose* to play with the classic line-up, which would only happen if he feels he's up to it). I think Banks & Rutherford would be fine, and Hackett is playing better than ever anyway.
Realistically, they probably know that most of their fans would be hard to please and have unrealistic expectations about what such a tour would be, and decide that it's better to leave people with their memories. Which is just as well. If a reunion happens I'll be there, but I'm mostly interested in new material from the guys - Hackett has a new solo album that he's working on, Gabriel's I/O will be released in 2025, and I seem to remember Banks talking about a new rock project as well. And Collins seems almost un-retired, too. So, even though the band probably won't do anything together anymore, there's a lot of good stuff coming from the Genesis guys.
Henning
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Yeah, but you're talking about fanatical prog rock fans who seem to accept what Yes is dishing out these days and are willing to pay for it. Sorry but I don't want to hear "Yours Is No Disgrace" performed by a band in which three out of five of the band are clearly not in the best physical shape; and that's before you factor in age, the tempos and the sloppy playing. The only one who sounds like he cares on a nightly basis is the vocalist and I kind of feel sorry for him. I really hope Genesis doesn't reform...stick a fork in it.
Just to reiterate my point: if such a reunion was to happen, they *would* be playing simplified arrangements at slower tempos and down-tuned. This isn't really debateable.
Whether or not one finds this prospect to be appealing is, of course, their own opinion. I definitely don't; I guess you do.
Okay. I don't see how that can be spoken of as if it's fact, but it's pointless to argue about it.
Given the fact that I've never seen them, I would jump at the chance to catch a show of any kind while the guys are still around. Obviously our opinions differ, which is fine.
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