FEATURED CD - Van Der Graaf Generator : Pawn Hearts

[thedunno]

Pretty much, yes. It has taken me a long time, but I have never been into VDGG/PH as much as I am right now. Can't get enough. He is an amazing vocalist with an outrageous range and many different styles, but its a voice you have to appreciate to really get into this group. Can't ignore it.

Right now, I'm hitting Godbluff and Still Life on repeat mode, on repeat mode, on repeat mode, on repeat mode......

Also digging Silent Corner/Stage a bunch. Pawn Hearts is a gem from soup-to-nuts. I also like H to He a bunch, but it hasn't hit me as hard as the others. I am clueless as to the earlier albums and the albums post-Godbluff. Have not really heard the newer albums at all.

Later Hammill is naturally a lot more mellow then his earlier work but that is not really a bad thing. Try Fireships (1992) and ….all that might have been (2015). Both excellent.

[pmrviana]

Later Hammill is naturally a lot more mellow then his earlier work but that is not really a bad thing. Try Fireships (1992) and ….all that might have been (2015). Both excellent.

I'm a huge fan, but those don't do much for me... from his more recent work I much prefer Singularity and Thin Air. But before getting into those, he should listen to The Future Now/PH7/Black Box if he hasn't already. Those are his very best, IMO.

And for more recent VDGG, both Trisector and Grounding in Numbers are as good as anything from the 70's, IMO.

[aith01]

Pretty much, yes. It has taken me a long time, but I have never been into VDGG/PH as much as I am right now. Can't get enough. He is an amazing vocalist with an outrageous range and many different styles, but its a voice you have to appreciate to really get into this group. Can't ignore it.

Right now, I'm hitting Godbluff and Still Life on repeat mode, on repeat mode, on repeat mode, on repeat mode......

Also digging Silent Corner/Stage a bunch. Pawn Hearts is a gem from soup-to-nuts. I also like H to He a bunch, but it hasn't hit me as hard as the others. I am clueless as to the earlier albums and the albums post-Godbluff. Have not really heard the newer albums at all.

Nice, man.

You should hear A Grounding In Numbers at some point, IMO. It's a different beast compared to their earlier work, and without Jackson it couldn't help but sound pretty different, but it's a really cool record and a major leap forward from Trisector which was their first after Jackson left (I think) -- they were still finding their "post-Jaxxon sound" at that point, but on Numbers they found it I believe.

I've never been a major VDGG fan, but ever since I heard H to He and Pawn Hearts 10+ years ago, I've found them fascinating. Never heard a song like "Lemmings" before, or since. Still Life and Godbluff are both killers as well. I'll admit that Hammill's voice took some getting used to for me, but now I appreciate the rawness and intensity.

Think I'll put some VDGG on this morning while at work.

Have you listened to the album that Peter Hammill did with Isildurs Bane? In Amazonia? Dude... I love their music anyway, but Hammill's voice just elevates it to a whole other level, IMO. He's only gotten better with time.

[aith01]

And for more recent VDGG, both Trisector and Grounding in Numbers are as good as anything from the 70's, IMO.

I agree with you! I prefer Numbers, but Trisector is still very good.

[aith01]

I'm taking the bait Frank!

I was ready for this record from all eternity. I listened to it at the same time I was discovering the other greats (Yes, Genesis, Giants, Tull etc) and I was taken in instantly. Sucked in would be a better description. I was 18 years old, felt completely disconnected from everything that was happening around me, tortured by metaphysical anguish and doubts about everything, completely alone.
And I remember very vividly this hot July afternoon, I had this playing in my room and I was outside on the porch listening to it from afar and thought: "Yes, others have been where I am too, I am not alone". That's the best thing music - art - can do to you, the greatest reward.

Is there any redemption in there? Yes, but it comes from the other side of the glass - All things are Apart - not All things are One as one would expect.

On a more objective basis, after all these years, I still cannot explain how these young fellows came to this exact sound. It's a mystery that hasn't lost anything from its power on me. I mean, what the fuck is this? Maybe it's just chance, or the ability to allow chance to do its work, put these brilliant musicians along with a complete musical genius together in a room, starve them to death and you get this.

If there is one "Prog" album that one needs to have, this is it. And exactly because it's quintessential Prog and no one can deny that.

Great story, man. Thank you for sharing it. This is what music and art are all about, from my point of view at least.

[Buddhabreath]

I was ready for this record from all eternity. I listened to it at the same time I was discovering the other greats (Yes, Genesis, Giants, Tull etc) and I was taken in instantly. Sucked in would be a better description. I was 18 years old, felt completely disconnected from everything that was happening around me, tortured by metaphysical anguish and doubts about everything, completely alone.

And I remember very vividly this hot July afternoon, I had this playing in my room and I was outside on the porch listening to it from afar and thought: "Yes, others have been where I am too, I am not alone". That's the best thing music - art - can do to you, the greatest reward.

Yes thanks for sharing that. I was at about the same age, first year at university (before I dropped out to travel) and PH hit me like a ton of bricks and seemed to perfectly express the "raging storm within" and all my existential angst as nothing else did or even came close to.

How can I be free?
How can I get help?
Am I really me?
Am I someone else?

[tonewalk]

Pretty much, yes. It has taken me a long time, but I have never been into VDGG/PH as much as I am right now. Can't get enough. He is an amazing vocalist with an outrageous range and many different styles, but its a voice you have to appreciate to really get into this group. Can't ignore it.

Right now, I'm hitting Godbluff and Still Life on repeat mode, on repeat mode, on repeat mode, on repeat mode......

Also digging Silent Corner/Stage a bunch. Pawn Hearts is a gem from soup-to-nuts. I also like H to He a bunch, but it hasn't hit me as hard as the others. I am clueless as to the earlier albums and the albums post-Godbluff. Have not really heard the newer albums at all.

I'm a huge fan - currently planning to see the whole tour in the Spring - and can only envy you for the music to come. You're mining a very rich seam at the moment but I think there's only three or four of the 50+ studio albums I wouldn't miss if they were lost.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Numbers

The first two tracks of this album makes for one of the best openings of any Hammill-involved release. I couldn't believe it when I heard it, but on these two songs he sounds as if he's totally back on Still Life turf - not only in terms of sound but of state-of-mind. And yet it's an absolutely timeless and in-the-moment expression of mentality and sonic. Granted a tune like "Highly Strung" brings him right back to the Nadir phase of things, still you got to wonder... a couple of heartattacks and (AFAIK) some personal setbacks of seminal impact - how can he appear as quick and rapid and vital as this?

[Progatron]

I also like H to He a bunch, but it hasn't hit me as hard as the others. I am clueless as to the earlier albums and the albums post-Godbluff. Have not really heard the newer albums at all.

You simply must listen to The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other. That was my first ever experience with VDGG/Hammill, and it left me breathless and an instant fan for life. It remains one of my favourites, and is loaded with early VDGG classics!

[mogrooves]

I looked up my initial post and pretty much agree with it:

The apotheosis of "Prog."

The word "music" (let alone "Prog") seems insufficient to invoke here, a tag too lazy, small, and prosaic to encompass a sonic gesture so simultaneously cosmic and interior, a sound beyond so mundane a categorical designation; it can neither contain nor consecrate it. Four guys, one consciousness; it rarely happens.

I think this topic alone would make for an interesting thread.

To my ears, Hammill's singing began to change with Godbluff. He'll never be called "laconic," which is fine with me, but his delivery became increasingly declamatory (less aria-like and more recitative-ish, as it were), in which the words are at odds with the music. (Something similar happens in much of The Lamb....).

The songcraft that marks the earlier LPs, in which there is a hand-in-glove "fit" between words and music, began to rupture with Godbluff, "round" words being shoe-horned into "square" music, so to speak. (There are exceptions, of course, but this was the general trajectory).

[chalkpie]

You simply must listen to The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other. That was my first ever experience with VDGG/Hammill, and it left me breathless and an instant fan for life. It remains one of my favourites, and is loaded with early VDGG classics!

Will do! Cheers

[chalkpie]

I'm a huge fan - currently planning to see the whole tour in the Spring - and can only envy you for the music to come. You're mining a very rich seam at the moment but I think there's only three or four of the 50+ studio albums I wouldn't miss if they were lost.

VDGG is the last of the "BIG" prog bands that I haven't 100% discovered yet....it's exciting for sure.

[Progatron]

VDGG is the last of the "BIG" prog bands that I haven't 100% discovered yet....it's exciting for sure.

Definitely an exciting journey to be starting. Obviously you've familiarized yourself with some of the heavy hitters in the catalogue, but believe me, there's plenty more to come! Much greatness lies ahead on the path you are going down...

Of course, this is what ends up happening if you become a rabid fan:

vdgg cds.jpg

hammill cds 4.jpg

[Bucka001]

Of the new(er) stuff, I really like Do Not Disturb and then (my #1 for the 00's) A Grounding In Numbers. Both fantastic discs.

If you're on Facebook, then please 'like' my VdGG page (I get exclusive stuff given to me, like Guy sending pix of his pre-VdGG bands, etc, for posting on my FB page). https://www.facebook.com/vandergraaf...?ref=bookmarks

[aith01]

Of the new(er) stuff, I really like Do Not Disturb and then (my #1 for the 00's) A Grounding In Numbers. Both fantastic discs.

If you're on Facebook, then please 'like' my VdGG page (I get exclusive stuff given to me, like Guy sending pix of his pre-VdGG bands, etc, for posting on my FB page). https://www.facebook.com/vandergraaf...?ref=bookmarks

Argh! I still need to get Do Not Disturb. I keep forgetting to.

[aith01]

The first two tracks of this album makes for one of the best openings of any Hammill-involved release. I couldn't believe it when I heard it, but on these two songs he sounds as if he's totally back on Still Life turf - not only in terms of sound but of state-of-mind. And yet it's an absolutely timeless and in-the-moment expression of mentality and sonic. Granted a tune like "Highly Strung" brings him right back to the Nadir phase of things, still you got to wonder... a couple of heartattacks and (AFAIK) some personal setbacks of seminal impact - how can he appear as quick and rapid and vital as this?

The comparison to the beginning of Still Life is quite apt. I love those first two tracks, and they have a sense of easing into things much like "Pilgrims" does. Also, how many songs have their lyrics built around a mathematical equation involving pi, and actually make for a compelling listen?

Vital is exactly the right description too. Hammill has never sounded better than he did on Numbers and since, IMO. Not meant as a disservice to those classic albums, but time has deepened the qualities of his voice. I'm sure experience has something to do with that too. He seems like a good bloke; I'm glad he bounced back and has continued to give us some quality stuff at this point in his career, when many musicians would be content to just coast on their past.

[Rick L.]

I dug them from the get go. Pawn Hearts was my first, bit I think I might have had Fripp's Exposure before that and had already heard and dug Hammill.

Still Life was the next for me, and I freaking loved that sucker as well. This was all probably around 1991.

I've said this before, but I think the second ans third Ange albums were an unintentional prototype for where Van der Graaf ended up with Godbluff/Still Life. Strip it down and go right for the grit, but with all the "bigness" and "theatricality" intact.

I dig Do Not Disturb. The folks that dig the more recent stuff who don't have that sucker should get it.

OK. Bye.

[Zappathustra]

Yes thanks for sharing that. I was at about the same age, first year at university (before I dropped out to travel) and PH hit me like a ton of bricks and seemed to perfectly express the "raging storm within" and all my existential angst as nothing else did or even came close to.

How can I be free?
How can I get help?
Am I really me?
Am I someone else?

Yes. Man-Erg was my first face-to-face encounter, and I have never recovered since.

Pretty much, yes. It has taken me a long time, but I have never been into VDGG/PH as much as I am right now.

It's amazing what these blind spots can do to us. I am almost embarrassed to bring up mine. It's completely random and personal. It takes effort to work one's way against them. But perhaps the reward is even greater then.

[Buddhabreath]

I looked up my initial post and pretty much agree with it:

To my ears, Hammill's singing began to change with Godbluff. He'll never be called "laconic," which is fine with me, but his delivery became increasingly declamatory (less aria-like and more recitative-ish, as it were), in which the words are at odds with the music. (Something similar happens in much of The Lamb....).

The songcraft that marks the earlier LPs, in which there is a hand-in-glove "fit" between words and music, began to rupture with Godbluff, "round" words being shoe-horned into "square" music, so to speak. (There are exceptions, of course, but this was the general trajectory).

Interesting and valid analysis I think, however one exception that may prove the rule is Hammill's vocals on "Arrow" which are about as declamatory as it gets! If you don't like his screaming vocal "Impaled upon the arrow!", then the fiery essence of PH is not for you IMO. That searing vocal assault makes the biggest, baddest death-metal, cookie-monster's from hell vocals sound like a meek little girl crying for her mommie. Sad!

[Zappathustra]

I looked up my initial post and pretty much agree with it:





To my ears, Hammill's singing began to change with Godbluff. He'll never be called "laconic," which is fine with me, but his delivery became increasingly declamatory (less aria-like and more recitative-ish, as it were), in which the words are at odds with the music. (Something similar happens in much of The Lamb....).

The songcraft that marks the earlier LPs, in which there is a hand-in-glove "fit" between words and music, began to rupture with Godbluff, "round" words being shoe-horned into "square" music, so to speak. (There are exceptions, of course, but this was the general trajectory).

Very accurately expressed - and this is the reason I used to consider the second incarnation inferior to the first. The flow of lyrics in relation to the music seemed less natural and more forced in the second case. Of course I came to appreciate it for what it is, and love it with time. The strength of emotion justifies - or even calls for - any self-indulgence from Hammill's part.

And yes, you have to recite the line "...which no longer has any meaning" from Still life to get to the point of it all...

[Buddhabreath]

And yes, you have to recite the line "...which no longer has any meaning" from Still life to get to the point of it all...

Actually, we need a follow-up to Still Life to explain that it never had any damn meaning!

[Zappathustra]

Actually, we need a follow-up to Still Life to explain that it never had any damn meaning!

That was too deep even for a Greek philosopher, so I will ponder on it a bit more

[Buddhabreath]

That was too deep even for a Greek philosopher, so I will ponder on it a bit more

I await the results of your ponderings in great anticipation.

[per anporth]

Actually, we need a follow-up to Still Life to explain that it never had any damn meaning!

Is it time itself which no longer has any meaning in still life? - or is it the passing away of time?

I tend to think the latter - which is perhaps less metaphysically striking, but more existentially accurate.

[per anporth]

By the way - with reference to the seeming shift in the "fit" of PH's lyrics to the flow of the music - thinking about the words in Still Life, & especially about time & its passing, I looked back to Pioneers Over C - the difference is quite striking. To take just one example, compare the lines mentioned from Still Life with this "couplet" from the earlier track:

"Well now where is the time and who the hell am I,
here floating in an aimless way?"

I think this suggests that in some areas at least, PH had improved significantly as a writer (of words at least) over the course of these five years or so.