Huffington Post: Is Prog Rock the New Folk?

[undergroundrailroad]

Radio exposure was a limiting factor after the first wave of prog as well. Now that teens and young adults are getting their music from non-radio sources, it removes the most restrictive filter that kept them from even considering non-"mainstream" music.

On the other hand, there are other ways that things are different now.

Although never a user myself, I've surrendered myself to the idea that drug culture of the late 60s and early 70s fed into and drew from the imagery and inventiveness of the most creative bands of the time. It's probably pointless to even imagine a "Tales" or "Lamb" show without a thick marijuana fog. To say nothing of the creation of the albums in the first place. So much of the music that's still most revered owed a lot to the conjunction of fresh young brilliant minds with hallucinogenics. (It shouldn't be a surprise why those minds aren't making worthwhile music any more).

Moral judgments aside, there would need to be a monumental cultural shift or some mind-opening catalyst of that sort to get the mass populace out of the sing-along mode that keeps them strapped to brief, 3-chord pop (including Mumford and Sons). Otherwise, "progressive" music will be left to the few, the proud who appreciate art with higher aspirations. And those who make make progressive music will continue to do so not with stars in their eyes, but out of a compulsion nobody around them gets and that they don't quite understand themselves.

So no, I don't think the HuffPo pundit's opinion is good for much.

[No Pride]

Was prog mainstream, or did some prog happen to creep into the charts? I suspect the latter.

What's the difference? Maybe prog (which it was named in retrospect) didn't dominate the airwaves, but there were enough examples of it making the Top 40 to consider it as at least a part of the mainstream.

When I first hooked up with my girlfriend seven years ago, I answered the "what is prog?" question for her by playing her several tunes that were hits in the '70s; Point of Know Return, Roundabout, 20th Century Schizoid Man, etc. She's the prototypical mainstream pop radio fan; listened to Top 40 all her life and knows the lyrics to every hit that ever was. She was familiar with all of that stuff. So yeah, I think it qualified as being mainstream.

Will it ever be again? Highly doubtful. But neither will Frank Sinatra style swing. Many genres that once had their day in the sun are still around, but will never be in the mainstream again. Such is life!

[Facelift]

What's the difference? Maybe prog (which it was named in retrospect) didn't dominate the airwaves, but there were enough examples of it making the Top 40 to consider it as at least a part of the mainstream.

When I first hooked up with my girlfriend seven years ago, I answered the "what is prog?" question for her by playing her several tunes that were hits in the '70s; Point of Know Return, Roundabout, 20th Century Schizoid Man, etc. She's the prototypical mainstream pop radio fan; listened to Top 40 all her life and knows the lyrics to every hit that ever was. She was familiar with all of that stuff. So yeah, I think it qualified as being mainstream.

Will it ever be again? Highly doubtful. But neither will Frank Sinatra style swing. Many genres that once had their day in the sun are still around, but will never be in the mainstream again. Such is life!

I agree with your points. Frankly, I thought the article wasn't very good. Any time the attitude is about how prog was so embarrassing, I have to tune it out, because it's a version of history that simply wasn't true for lots of bands and fans. Yeah, I'm sure in some places in England at certain times, "prog" was a dirty word, but not so much in the US. Also, it inaccurately reduces prog to a particular bunch of bands playing in a particular style of prog.

It's rare for old styles to make huge comebacks in general popularity. And even when it does happen, it doesn't typically last for very long and usually isn't very good (remember the swing revival that happened for a couple of years in the '90s?).

And that's even assuming that prog has been gone. Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead, Tool, Mars Volta, Mastodon (and many others) incorporated large pieces of '70s prog influences into their music consistently over the last 20+ years and have done pretty well with critics and fans.

Prog's influence over contemporary bands might wax and wane, but I doubt we're going to see any kind of substantial revival of the music in the mainstream - and I can't say I'm very sorry about it.

[BobM]

I remember back in the day when I went to college and found out about all these cool bands that werent on the radio. This was pre "Indie", so it was super cool to me that there was an underground, even if it was kind of limited to college campuses.

Then the internet came along and everyone had access to everything, but there was still a music industry that kind of controlled things.

Now, everyone is hating the music industry, going out and making their own productions, releasing and promoting them on their own and controlling their fan base and profits. It's like "super-indie" and a very cool transition within an industry that is gradually killing it's old model. I think giving the artists this kind of control is key to making music truly "progressive" in every sense of the word.

[tom unbound]

So, then, what percentage of the whole 'mainstream' Rock market would you say Prog held over the years ??

(I know this varies nationally/internationally. I'm more interested in your 'gut feeling' than some statistics. I grew up in the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area back in the 70's - early Genesis shows, Gentle Giant, ELP BSS Rich Stadium, etc. so if my guess of 10% is high, that's why.

[rcarlberg]

what percentage of the whole 'mainstream' Rock market would you say Prog held over the years ??

Naught point eight, at the outside. And then only in college towns.

[Staun]

I don't see why this generation would not like prog. Rap, Hip Hop, Miley Cyrus? They are starving for something good to listen to.

[ronmac]

I don't see why this generation would not like prog. Rap, Hip Hop, Miley Cyrus? They are starving for something good to listen to.

Actually, the problem is that they think they already found it in Rap, Hip Hop and Miley.

[davis]

I'll try to be the first one to post it here when I get wind of Bob Dylan's next album being prog-oriented.

[Staun]

Actually, the problem is that they think they already found it in Rap, Hip Hop and Miley.

I suppose delusion can be a kind of reality.

[Cats On Glue]

maybe its the new new york city punk

[Cats On Glue]

I don't see why this generation would not like prog. Rap, Hip Hop, Miley Cyrus? They are starving for something good to listen to.

how about the kids that listen to mars volta, tool, gybe!, dave matthews etc??? i really wish people would stop judging kids based on their obviously very very very limited knowledge of the modern music scene. remember that while we were listening to prog, there were still a majority of kids packing the discos and others listening to even worse crap. every generation has their own progressive scene,ours happened to be prog. don't think there arent just as many cool kids listening to progressive music as there was in the 70s.

[Staun]

how about the kids that listen to mars volta, tool, gybe!, dave matthews etc??? i really wish people would stop judging kids based on their obviously very very very limited knowledge of the modern music scene. remember that while we were listening to prog, there were still a majority of kids packing the discos and others listening to even worse crap. every generation has their own progressive scene,ours happened to be prog. don't think there arent just as many cool kids listening to progressive music as there was in the 70s.

I understand your point but what I was tring to say was, if they give it an honest listen, they might find something they might like about what we consider as progressive.

[bill g]

how about the kids that listen to mars volta, tool, gybe!, dave matthews etc??? i really wish people would stop judging kids based on their obviously very very very limited knowledge of the modern music scene. remember that while we were listening to prog, there were still a majority of kids packing the discos and others listening to even worse crap. every generation has their own progressive scene,ours happened to be prog. don't think there arent just as many cool kids listening to progressive music as there was in the 70s.

A lot of that translates today to bands like Fleet Foxes, Freelance Whales, Toro Y Moi, Local Natives, Beach House, etc... mostly underground stuff kind of like PFM, Arti&Mestieri, Gentle Giant and the like were 'underground' (little or no airplay) in the 70s. Incidentally, I quite like a lot of the new underground stuff, have purchased a lot of it, and some of it actually surprises me.

[Vic2012]

how about the kids that listen to mars volta, tool, gybe!, dave matthews etc??? i really wish people would stop judging kids based on their obviously very very very limited knowledge of the modern music scene. remember that while we were listening to prog, there were still a majority of kids packing the discos and others listening to even worse crap. every generation has their own progressive scene,ours happened to be prog. don't think there arent just as many cool kids listening to progressive music as there was in the 70s.

Good post. Totally agree.

[davis]

I don't recall prog ever being mainstream.

In south Jersey, during the early-mid 70's, I regularly heard Yes, Renaissance, ELP, Jethro Tull and others on WIOQ (FM Philadelpha). At least those are the bands I remember hearing. Not trying to contradict you; just saying that prog rock was on radio in the Delaware Valley. That's the station where I first heard Al Stewart; The 8-minute song 'Roads To Moscow'. Maybe IOQ was a bit off the beaten path.

[ronmac]

Good old WIOQ. Great station. They certainly weren't mainstream back then, though. I believe they are now.

[davis]

^ yeah, it's WIOQ, Philly's Hit Music.

[bob_32_116]

I predicted about 10 years ago that there would be some kind of folk revival. I have no proof; I didn't put the prediction on record anywhere, so you'll just have to take my word for it - or not, your choice.

Now about prog: I do not ever remember a time when it was "mainstream" in the sense of dominating the charts. What it was, was accepted. The musical era that brought us Days of Future Passed and Piper at the Gates of Dawn also brought us the 1910 Fruitgum Co., The Archies and Edison Lighthouse. Maybe things were different in your part of the world, but I remember it as being a time when it was OK to enjoy something that your friends didn't, and when radio DJs would play stuff out of left-field just for the hell of it, to get a reaction from the listeners. Progressive rock was never flavour of the month, but nor was it scorned as an embarrassment. I knew people who loved Jerry Lee Lewis, the Moody Blues AND Frank Zappa.

Sometime in the late 1970s, this state of affairs changed. Someone decided that you had to categorise yourself. You loved disco, or else you hated disco. You were a punk rocker, or else you must be one of those old farts who likes Tales From Topographic Oceans. I've had people dismiss stuff I like with comments like "Oh, that's ten years old." Oh the horror. Perish the thought that you could be caught listening to and liking something that your Dad likes, or even your older brother.

I don't think "prog"was ever really mainstream.Nor do I particularly wish it to be. In a sense that would be a contradiction in terms. What I would like to happen is a bit more acceptance amon the listening public that good music doesn't have to be in standard 4/4 or 3/4 time; it doesn't have to have predictable note progressions; it doesn't have to be 3 minutes long or less; the lyrics are allowed to be a little deep and mysterious. . Listen to your Miley Cyrus and David Guetta and Jason Derulo by all means, but don't put me down when I want to listen to Yes, Genesis or Porcupine Tree.

[BobM]

Back in college @1979-80 we had a division of those guys in the fraternity who liked prog, and those who liked disco. So we ran an experiment. We through a prog themed party and a separate disco themed party.

The prog party was fairly empty overall.
The disco party drew in many girls, was packed, and had people dancing into the wee hours.

Guess which became the standard for all our frat parties going forward?

[ronmac]

^^ Yeah, that WAS the big problem with disco. All the hot women were at the dance clubs, which is why I just hung out elsewhere and got ripped with my buddies.

[profusion]

Sometime in the late 1970s, this state of affairs changed. Someone decided that you had to categorise yourself. You loved disco, or else you hated disco. You were a punk rocker, or else you must be one of those old farts who likes Tales From Topographic Oceans. I've had people dismiss stuff I like with comments like "Oh, that's ten years old." Oh the horror. Perish the thought that you could be caught listening to and liking something that your Dad likes, or even your older brother.

That "someone" was primarily the radio industry. They figured out, quite correctly, that they could attract more advertising business by formatting their stations very carefully to reach specific, highly targeted audiences. To a radio station owner, the advertising *is* the programming, and the stuff in between is just whatever type of noise is needed to get you to the ads. It's a lot easier to market radio as an advertising medium if you can precisely predict what sort of person will be listening and deliver a certain amount of "quality control" in that regard--meaning the DJ doesn't get to play the song with the 20-minute flute solo that drives away half the listeners or play songs that aren't likely to attract the station's chosen demographic (such as playing Seals & Crofts on a rock station).

The days of DJs on FM rock stations bringing in their own records to play because they personally liked them were pretty much over by 1975.

Since the record industry revolved almost entirely around using radio as a promotional tool, whatever the radio stations wanted was what the record industry produced. Legacy bands that made it during the free-form FM era could get away with albums like Presence or Going For The One, but new bands couldn't. They were 'A&Red' into making exactly what radio wanted.

Ultimately, this process carried over to listeners themselves, who began to personally identify themselves by which niche of pop music they listened to. That was the state of affairs when I was a teenager in the early '80s. It became personal.

[strawberrybrick]

The prog revival is coming to the end, it's old age that's closing the door on the original generation of rockers. Lots of new band find influence from it, but we'll see how that plays out. Steven Wilson still isn't a household name...

[cavgator]

Good old WIOQ. Great station. They certainly weren't mainstream back then, though. I believe they are now.

Ron, as you know, prog wasn't even labelled as prog back then. It was simply another form of rock. Some at Creem and Rolling Stone called it art rock, but when prog bands filled up stadiums and rivaled Zeppelin and the Stones for concert venues and album sales, that was mainstream enough. From 1971 through 1975, chances were good that a prog band was on the cover of Circus magazine, the most friendly publication to prog.

[ronmac]

Ron, as you know, prog wasn't even labelled as prog back then. It was simply another form of rock. Some at Creem and Rolling Stone called it art rock, but when prog bands filled up stadiums and rivaled Zeppelin and the Stones for concert venues and album sales, that was mainstream enough. From 1971 through 1975, chances were good that a prog band was on the cover of Circus magazine, the most friendly publication to prog.

We called it art rock back in the mid-to-late 70s where I lived in eastern PA.