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Thread: Beware of Mr. Baker

  1. #1

    Beware of Mr. Baker

    Has anybody seen this movie? It got a good review in the The New York Times.

  2. #2
    It is excellent. Ginger Baker has led a truly amazing life. I was totally clueless about him and how great of a drummer he really is. He is sure a wild man! The movie includes plenty of interviews with famous friends like Clapton or Winwood. Highly recommended.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    I saw it in a cinema. Highly recommended!
    He is a startling personality, with an interesting life on several continents.
    I believe you can find a way to see it online via youtube.

  5. #5
    Sounds great. Is this movie on dvd ?

  6. #6
    I saw it as part of the St. Louis International Film Festival a couple weeks ago. Personally, I never really got into Cream. I am a big fan of Steve Winwood, and he's in the documentary. This is what I wrote about it on Facebook, in response to someone asking what I thought of it.

    <Spoilers>



    The subject matter was interesting, but the technical aspects of the film weren't great. Things like trying to decipher thick accents that weren't loud enough with a drum solo going on simultaneously as part of the soundtrack. It seemed like most of what Ginger added were rude or funny comments, and the other people interviewed told more of the story - Clapton, Bruce, Winwood, fans like Neil Peart, ex-wives and kids.

    One of the saddest parts was when Baker said that Clapton was his closest, best friend. The next scene was Clapton saying he only knows Baker from working with him under certain circumstances and that the documentary-maker probably knows him better. His kids, talking matter-of-factly about what a lousy father he was, was hard to watch too.

  7. #7
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    It's on Netflix streaming now. I watched it the other night and thought it was fascinating! He's obviously a severely flawed human with a history of despicable behavior, but I felt he has some redeeming qualities too; just a very complex character. And what an interesting life he's had! I liked the film more than I expected to. Definitely worth checking out!

    (edit) When I dug up this thread, I had no idea which forum it would land on. Feel free to move it if necessary, moderators.

  8. #8
    His saying whatever he feels like in the moment is exciting - but when he says mean stuff about his son Kofi's drumming just cuz he's moving away - I guess every statement has its price. Loved the film, though.

  9. #9
    Member Wounded Land's Avatar
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    It is definitely worth watching, but I found it to be extremely depressing. Baker is not a happy man. The contrast between his take on his relationship with Clapton and Clapton's own perception alone is heartbreaking.

    I definitely came away from it with a greater appreciation for him as a drummer, though.

  10. #10
    PE Member Since 4/9/2002 NeonKnight's Avatar
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    I just saw it on Netflix also.

    A lot of interesting parts, including the rather low regard Baker had for Bonham and Moon as drummers. He certainly set up a template for those two as the stereotypical drummer with most of their screws loose. What an actual wildman!

    I was totally clueless about his love/hate relationship with Jack Bruce, which the film reveals was probably the doom of Cream. Lars Ulrich with the apt observation of Cream's two short years together as a band and their awesome output and influence, "Our last tour was longer then they were together."

    Another surprising insight was Clapton was not involved with Baker's arrival in Blind Faith. In fact Clapton was really not very pleased to be back in a group with the lunatic Ginger in it at all. No surprise that band did not last either....
    “Where words fail, music speaks.” - Hans Christian Anderson

  11. #11
    I enjoyed it. Interesting stuff.

  12. #12
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    A great musician, but what an awful, nasty, angry man he is. Very worthwhile movie with some brilliant clips. I wasn't too crazy about the sequences where the filmmaker filled in with cartoons, although the one of Baker and Bruce brutally screaming at each other was pretty effective. Unless I missed it, they skipped over a few bits of Baker's career, like his stint in Hawkwind and the BBM project (although they showed the cover image of Baker with wings). And Johnny Rotten appeared, but I don't recall any actual mention of Baker working with PIL.

  13. #13
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arabicadabra View Post
    His saying whatever he feels like in the moment is exciting - but when he says mean stuff about his son Kofi's drumming just cuz he's moving away - I guess every statement has its price.
    Yeah, that was pathetic; especially because you could tell Kofi was starved for his dad's love and respect. And... he's a really good drummer too; he's on (at least) one of the Ohm albums (never heard the third one) and he sounded great; maybe there's some jealousy on Ginger's part, who knows?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Land View Post
    I definitely came away from it with a greater appreciation for him as a drummer, though.
    As did I.

  14. #14
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonKnight View Post
    I was totally clueless about his love/hate relationship with Jack Bruce, which the film reveals was probably the doom of Cream.
    That I already knew about. It was established before Cream began. Imagine Ginger's disappointment when Eric agreed to be in Cream, but only if Jack, his archrival was the bass player. I heard a story quite a while back... Ginger had a way of bouncing a stick off the snare so it would go flying and his aim was dead accurate. He'd shoot them at Jack's head. One time too many, Jack jumped over the drumset and slugged Ginger... in the middle of a concert! But apparently, it was one of a series of physical altercations between the two. The band was doomed from the start.

  15. #15
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Clapton often spoke of resenting getting caught in the middle of these guys and always having to mediate their disputes. Goodbye Cream.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  16. #16
    It was great film. There was a ton of footage of him playing live that I would love to see in whole, and the doc about his trip through Africa would be cool to see as well.

    I have a feeling that Ginger's harsh words to his son was a way of severing his connection to him, being in his own twisted mind a way to toughen up his son so he can move on without him. It is pretty fucked up, but not unusual for people who were fucked up by the loss of their own parents.

  17. #17
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jupiter0rjapan View Post
    and the doc about his trip through Africa would be cool to see as well.
    For $6 it can be yours. I have a copy.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    Yeah, that was pathetic; especially because you could tell Kofi was starved for his dad's love and respect. And... he's a really good drummer too; he's on (at least) one of the Ohm albums (never heard the third one) and he sounded great; maybe there's some jealousy on Ginger's part, who knows?!
    Yes Kofi played with Ohm for a few years. I saw him several times in LA with the group and they/he were great. Once I sat down next to a beautiful woman in the front row who was there alone (obviously a musician's girlfriend...). We started talking and she was Kofi's fiancee. He came over and we chatted throughout the break. At one point I told him how much I liked his dad's drumming and made some joke like "it is in your genes". He and fiancee both looked down and said nothing. So there was something going on already then... I was kicking myself for bringing that one up, given that I did know a little bit of Ginger's rep...

  19. #19
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Kofi also played great with Hellborg & Shawn Lane. Very different style.

    I have great respect for Gingers drumming, nobody really plays like that. But sometimes he is very sloppy - Listen to World of Pain on Disraeli Gears!
    I had heard that tune a million times and my system was completely adjusted to the drumming. Nothing wrong with that - untill I played it to a guy who to my surprise didnt knew Cream.
    And he immidiately said who is the clown on drums, why didnt they retake it... first I objected, but though it still doesnt bother me, he was right.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    Clapton often spoke of resenting getting caught in the middle of these guys and always having to mediate their disputes. Goodbye Cream.
    The history of Bruce and Baker even before Cream was extraordinary, with a physical confrontation between the two whilst both were in The Graham Bond Organisation.

    I haven't seen the film but the thing about Baker considering Clapton a close friend and Clapton being rather cooler was talked about a lot. I've seen the 'Classic Artists' DVD and Baker sounds off at everyone except Clapton...Jack Bruce gets a right old savaging about songwriting credits, loud playing etc.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Unless I missed it, they skipped over a few bits of Baker's career, like his stint in Hawkwind
    This was addressed in the Q&A with Baker and the director when the film was released.

    Baker had no respect for Hawkwind and they decided to skip over that period.

    The director also reported that he didn't much care for Hawkwind's music. Why this would be mentioned or relevant to a director trying to truly cover a musician's life, I have no idea.

  22. #22
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    RE; Baker, Hawkwind, BBM. On UK music journalist Dave Ling's always entertaining diary website, there's a selection of infamous quotes made by rock stars. Scroll down this page to find some of Baker's colourful comments on Hawkwind, other drummers and Gary Moore.

    http://www.daveling.co.uk/quotes.htm

  23. #23
    “The music that I did with Metallica is awe-inspiring. It’s maybe the best thing done by anyone, ever.
    It could create another planetary system. I’m not joking, and I’m not being egotistical.”

    Lou Reed

    Sorry, ot but how could anyone not share that.

  24. #24
    I think the healthy way to handle being the subject of a Ginger Baker rant is to take it as an honor. It's akin to being singled out by Don Rickles...you know he's going to rip you a new one, but it's ultimately harmless and almost always hysterical. Ginger Baker is classic rock's premier insult comic.

  25. #25
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by izz_brian View Post
    It's akin to being singled out by Don Rickles...you know he's going to rip you a new one, but it's ultimately harmless
    Except that Don Rickles doesn't usually hit you in the face with a cane!

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