Univers Zero - Phosphorescent Dreams

[Steve F.]

IMO

yeah, but whats the quality equivalent... 64 Kbps???

You can have the greatest bakery in the world, but if there is someone outside your door giving away as many loaves of Wonder Bread as people want, your bakery will go out of business, because you can not compete with free, no matter what the quality is of what is free and what the quality is of what you are charging money for.

It doesn't matter that one is gourmet and one is shit (sorry Wonder Bread fans)

There is just no way to compete with 'free'.

again, imo.

[Zeuhlmate]

Right, but it can be higher - radiokeneally is 128. I have never felt tempted. Its unethical and there is no point really, it sounds shit anyway on my stereo compared to CD or vinyl, and when sitting at my PC, I could just stream it again.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

it sounds shit anyway on my stereo compared to CD or vinyl

and there's the point for me... I want my music to sound excellent... always!

I will definitely be getting this CD when it becomes affordable

[Steve F.]

I will definitely be getting this CD when it becomes affordable

"Affordable" has different meanings for different people. I completely understand that you do not feel it is affordable. I am not arguing with that.

But: You and everyone else who is unhappy about the price needs to realize that this is a Japanese-only release. There is not going to be another version and the price isn't coming down.

[Zeuhlmate]

I mentioned the discussion here to the label and she said:

About retail prices, the price is normal in Japan.
If someone ( except USA because WAYSIDE MUSIC is exclusive US distributer ) want to buy UZ cd from diskunion directly, please tell them my email address, that's a price includes shipping costs.

case 1 order from Europe
UZ/Phosphorescent Dreams: JPY3,000
Shipping Charge : JPY 330.
Paypal charge (4%): JPY 133.
Total Amount : JPY 3,463. (= approx = 25 EUR)

write to: nagai [at] diskunion.co.jp

[zombywoof]

IMO
You can have the greatest bakery in the world, but if there is someone outside your door giving away as many loaves of Wonder Bread as people want, your bakery will go out of business, because you can not compete with free, no matter what the quality is of what is free and what the quality is of what you are charging money for.

It doesn't matter that one is gourmet and one is shit (sorry Wonder Bread fans)

There is just no way to compete with 'free'.

again, imo.

That's just sad. True, but sad.

[inhortte]

I'm pretty sure Steve ships internationally.

Yeah. I got mine in Spain. Thanks, Steve.

Bob

[Steve F.]

That's just sad. True, but sad.

The truth will set you free and may make you sad!

[LighthouseKeeper]

I hope you have some left, Steve. I just put an order in, along with several others that have been on my wishlist.

[Sunhillow]

I mentioned the discussion here to the label and she said:

About retail prices, the price is normal in Japan.
If someone ( except USA because WAYSIDE MUSIC is exclusive US distributer ) want to buy UZ cd from diskunion directly, please tell them my email address, that's a price includes shipping costs.

case 1 order from Europe
UZ/Phosphorescent Dreams: JPY3,000
Shipping Charge : JPY 330.
Paypal charge (4%): JPY 133.
Total Amount : JPY 3,463. (= approx = 25 EUR)

write to: nagai [at] diskunion.co.jp

Well, I took this advice, and it has arrived last week. Pretty fast delivery, considering I've hypnotized myself in forgetting about doing the order, for they predicted 12 weeks for delivery. Anyway, I'd like to thank all of those who praised this album, because it's truly their best album this century. Highly enjoy it.

Made me revisit UZ back catalogue, and today I've ordered some that were missing in my collection (reissue of Heresie and Clivages). Still need Heatwave and I doubt I have The Hard Quest (I can't find it though).

[jkelman]

Reality check.

Streaming a 'niche' album like Phosphorescent Dreams isn't going to "offer some modest form of promotion" -- those who know UZ are already tuned into it, and those that don't aren't likely to be listening to your program.

All your streaming would accomplish would be for some listeners to download the album for free.

Niche albums don't sell a lot of copies to begin with -- a few hundred sales lost to downloads can make a pretty big dent in the economics of even releasing new material. I recently enjoyed the RIO documentary "Romantic Warriors II" (highly recommended!) wherein some musicians were discussing being in five to seven bands just to pay the bills. Even then, many of them have day jobs.

You're not "sticking it to the man." You're discouraging musicians from making a meager living doing the music they -- and we -- love.

What he said.....in spades!

[jkelman]

Don't you ever get embarrassed by the self-righteous self-promotion, as well as the trashing of anyone who dares to say 'no thank you' to your site?

Like he said, too....

[jkelman]

I haven't the faintest idea what you think I need.

But I don't care for the nonstop self promotion, putting your updates on the main page rather than the what's up page (which the mods seem to have given up on) and your reaction whenever someone doesn't let you put their album on your site that they're stupid and short sighted and deserve it if they get pirated.

Other than that I'm good.

Wow,, I really don't need to post anything on this thread, other than to agree with what folks are saying! Thanks!

[jkelman]

The sad side-effect is also that you've both ruined a thread that was started to find out if the Univers Zero was any good, and to complain a little bit about its availibility. I don't care if people, musicians or labels don't want me to stream them. But I do care if they don't have their distribution in order. That makes me shake my head and protest about it.

Nobody derailed anything. You started a thread with what was essentially a bitch that the Japanese company wouldn't give you a copy gratis to stream.you call it promotion; in the reality of today's biz, especially for niche market product like this, most folks in th industry call it "taking food off the plates of the artists and/or labels."

You'd have been less disingenuous, and your rant about being misunderstood and how you don't give a damn would have been easier to swallow has you not written:

Of course, the Japanese record-company declined my offer to stream it and thereby offer some modest form of promotion.

That sure sounds like sour grapes to me. And what you don't seem to understand, despite being here for a decade, is how small this industry is...for the most part, and UZ certainly falls in that category. Every copy ripped off is of great significance, because we're talking about a group that's lucky to sell, what, 2-3,000 copies at most, I suspect, which might - might - get them back the money they invested to make the record.. Every "promo" that doesn't yield something very direct, very concrete, and doesn't discourage illegal acquisition rather than spending bucks on purchasing, is one less copy bought to try and pay for the record and, maybe, just maybe, put a very few bucks in their pockets. And that's a big maybe.

Maybe your intentions are good; but If they are, then it sounds as though you don't get what the state of the industry is today. I'd recommend you listen to guys like Steve F., who know all too well what the challenges are, rather than getting cranky for being called out on what more than one poster has read in your words.

[jkelman]

Yet I stream many avant-prog-releases, and the bands I stream almost always seems to be pleased with the promotion.

Sure they are, because they don't understand the business side of this equation. Some musicians do, others don't.

And personally, whether you like it or not, I am of the opinion there's a direct link between how many times an album is illegaly downloaded and sold. '

Sure! there are those who do illegally download an album and if they like it, buy it. But if you think that's the majority then I'd like to see your numbers that support that assertion. My experience' speaking with many people, is just the opposite. Most folks who download albums illegally download 'em and keep 'em. Sure, they might buy the occasional one or two...but they don't get rid of those they don't, and I assure you that they do go back and listen to them.

Sorry, but if you think there's some connection that's positive, we're living on different planets....

[jkelman]

Or I can wait a little while longer and it'll all be on YouTube.

To the moon, Alice, to the moon !!

[rcarlberg]

Or I can wait a little while longer and it'll all be on YouTube)

THIS time maybe. Maybe next time they won't be able to afford to record, so it won't be anywhere.

[Sunhillow]

Can't we just agree to disagree? I know you all got valid points of arguments, yet you must agree I do too. I"m not the only one who beliefs in the power of streaming.

[Steve F.]

Can't we just agree to disagree? I know you all got valid points of arguments, yet you must agree I do too. I"m not the only one who beliefs in the power of streaming.

Sure we can disagree, and do so politely as long as:

1. You run a legal service offering streaming services as promotion for bands and labels and you ask bands and labels if they want to use your service (which you do - congratulations. You are half way there)

2. You don't bitch and moan and wish piracy on bands and labels who say "no thank you" to you when you offer to stream something for them and publicly call them stupid or insult them, all because they said "no thank you" to you.

I don't necessarily think you are 'wrong' nor do I necessarily disagree with your point of view: I think streaming can have real positive benefits for certain records / artists at certain times under certain conditions.

Having said that, it's the artists/labels decision to make. Not yours. Stop treating it like it's your decision to make. It isn't. That's the single issue here that really pisses me and everyone else off.

You want to make the decision? Spend a bunch of money to record a band and release their music. Then you can decide whatever you want and the decision is all yours.

[jkelman]

Can't we just agree to disagree? I know you all got valid points of arguments, yet you must agree I do too. I"m not the only one who beliefs in the power of streaming.

David Byrne just ran an article that any who think streaming as it stands today is ok need to read. Note I say " as it stands today." There's no doubt it's here to stay, but if it is to be a music delivery system that is fair to the people who make the music, there's got to be some changes made.....

Read on....

[Trane]

Nobody derailed anything. You started a thread with what was essentially a bitch that the Japanese company wouldn't give you a copy gratis to stream.you call it promotion; in the reality of today's biz, especially for niche market product like this, most folks in th industry call it "taking food off the plates of the artists and/or labels."

You'd have been less disingenuous, and your rant about being misunderstood and how you don't give a damn would have been easier to swallow has you not written:



That sure sounds like sour grapes to me. And what you don't seem to understand, despite being here for a decade, is how small this industry is...for the most part, and UZ certainly falls in that category. Every copy ripped off is of great significance, because we're talking about a group that's lucky to sell, what, 2-3,000 copies at most, I suspect, which might - might - get them back the money they invested to make the record.. Every "promo" that doesn't yield something very direct, very concrete, and doesn't discourage illegal acquisition rather than spending bucks on purchasing, is one less copy bought to try and pay for the record and, maybe, just maybe, put a very few bucks in their pockets. And that's a big maybe.

Maybe your intentions are good; but If they are, then it sounds as though you don't get what the state of the industry is today. I'd recommend you listen to guys like Steve F., who know all too well what the challenges are, rather than getting cranky for being called out on what more than one poster has read in your words.

Mmmmhhhh.... Markwin/Sunhillow's trial already happened earlier in the present thread, and he realized a few things (I thik/hope)...
Was there a need to do the trial again, three weeks later??

[Prehensile Pencil]

Can't we just agree to disagree? I know you all got valid points of arguments, yet you must agree I do too. I"m not the only one who beliefs in the power of streaming.

Dude, the moment you remove that DONATE button from your site is the moment I may give your musical "altruism" the benefit of the doubt.

[boilk]

I agree with Trane. He was already roasted previously, and gave a fair response. No need for repeated bashing.

neil

[NogbadTheBad]

Dude, the moment you remove that DONATE button from your site is the moment I may give your musical "altruism" the benefit of the doubt.

And remove the advertising.

[Trane]

Dude, the moment you remove that DONATE button from your site is the moment I may give your musical "altruism" the benefit of the doubt.

And remove the advertising.

You'd need top cover the costs for maintaining such a platform, no??