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Thread: The Mothers of Invention - Uncle Meat

  1. #51
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by profusion View Post
    He claimed that the drum and bass tracks on the original masters of We're Only In It For The Money and Cruising With Ruben and the Jets were in bad shape due to tape deterioration and needed to be replaced with new recordings by his current rhythm section. This may have been true of the tapes in his possession, however safety copies of the original masters were later found. WOIIFTM was restored to the original version in the '90s, but CWRATJ still has the '80s digital drum and bass recordings. Some have speculated that Frank really just wanted to replace rhythm section recordings that he disliked.
    Yes, that's what he CLAIMED. But any engineer worth his salt (and Frank certainly was) places the bass and drums in the CENTER TRACKS of the multi-track, to avoid edge damage and tracking problems so his story doesn't wash.

  2. #52
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    This was the first Zappa albumI think the doo-wop tunes are cute (and one of them has somebody cursing a blue streak in Spanish, Bilingual Bonus!)
    That'd be this guy.

  3. #53
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Yes, that's what he CLAIMED. But any engineer worth his salt (and Frank certainly was) places the bass and drums in the CENTER TRACKS of the multi-track, to avoid edge damage and tracking problems so his story doesn't wash.
    ...and in my opinion - Frank did it simply because he got an idea in his head and thought - "why not?" So with the newer equipment and tech coming online back then - USE IT. So he did. Try shit. He did. Sometimes it didnt work well - sometimes it did. That to me is why he is so attractable to me. Guts and nerve and if you dont like - well... not his problem. As long as it doesnt cause a murder.

  4. #54
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    I still have my original vinyl but want to acquire the CD. Which version--if any--duplicates the original vinyl release?
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    I still have my original vinyl but want to acquire the CD. Which version--if any--duplicates the original vinyl release?
    If you mean Uncle Meat - the vinyl version has not been released on CD. Look here:

    http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/pati...12hotpoop.html
    "Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."

  6. #56
    A must read interview with Mark Pinske a long time Zappa engineer on Mix magazine
    "Mix: Was there a permanent drum setup ready-miked?I got the impression from some newsgroup exchanges that once Frankfinally had a drum sound he liked in the studio, he liked it so muchthat it was one of the reasons he replaced the drums and bass on "We'reOnly in It for the Money," and "Ruben and the Jets." That's thequestion. Did he have a permanent drum setup?
    Pinske: He had a studio set of drums, but we normally used the artist's drums. In that particular case, we took ChadWackerman's drums. ...Frank became very fond of him, so John tuned all the drums for us. And what we would do is, John and I and Chad Wackerman, or whoever the drummer was - the ones that you talked about where we replaced the drums on "Rudy and the Jets" and that stuff, I was not very fond of that, because I really wanted - there was a chance for me to be able to remix all the original albums, you're talking about the old box master set, probably, and I was kind of upset about the fact that he wanted to replace the drums, because I had already gotten a pretty good drum sound out of even the mono recordings that were on the original ones, but he kind got - that was him getting carried away again. Trying to say, "Well, we might as well make it better." What we would do is, we would spend two or three days, just John and I and Chad, and we would try all kinds of different drumheads, and all kinds of different microphones, and all kinds of different things to try to get the absolute best drum sound we could get. So when we were done, we would have a really elaborate,great-sounding drum set. And Frank really loved this. He got to love the drum set so much. Where we really started getting carried away wason, like a piece called "Cocaine Decisions" on "Man From Utopia." Wejust had this EMT compressors, and the toms would sound real big, and all this kind of stuff. So Frank started really liking this really good drum sound, and kind of wanted to start hearing it on just about everything. It was just a phase. We would go through these phases.Unfortunately, when we redid the old box set, a lot of the recordings were so bad, when we got the original 10-track 1-inch masters, and12-track 1-inch master . . .
    Mix: They were 10-track 1-inch masters?
    Pinske: Yeah. There was a couple of them that were10-track 1-inch masters. There was a machine that was built by LesPaul, down at Cucamonga Studios. It was a homemade machine that wasprobably the only 10-track tape that was ever existence in the world.It was a 10-track 1-inch.
    - See more at: http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/complete-mark-pinske-interview-day-two/373054#sthash.BHN8NQX3.dpuf"

  7. #57
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    Thanks for that insight, Udi. I've heard lots of different perspectives - that one seems to be the one that sticks on the wall the most.

  8. #58
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    A must read interview with Mark Pinske a long time Zappa engineer on Mix magazine
    "Mix: Was there a permanent drum setup ready-miked?I got the impression from some newsgroup exchanges that once Frankfinally had a drum sound he liked in the studio, he liked it so muchthat it was one of the reasons he replaced the drums and bass on "We'reOnly in It for the Money," and "Ruben and the Jets."
    Udi

    He replaced them because (a) they had participated in a lawsuit against him due to what they felt were owed royalties and (b) he thought that his new guys were better players than those old guys and 'more chops' automatically equaled 'better'.

    Anything else, imo, is completely missing the ugly point of what FZ did on WOIIFTM and Cruising With Ruben.

    FZ was a genius, but he was also at times a total dick. Especially to his musicians and especially to his original band.

    YMMV
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  9. #59
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Looks like you're better off sticking with your old records if you want the originals. I was hoping the last campaign would get all the originals out, but it didn't, so I didn't really bother.
    There is a new vinyl edition available that sounds fantastic to my ears, and of course omits the penalty tracks.

  10. #60
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    Would the album fit on one disc without that garbage he put on the 2nd disc?

    I do think the original album itself is one of the best things he ever did, and as close as any to being an overall summary of what Zappa is about.

  11. #61
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Udi


    Anything else, imo, is completely missing the ugly point of what FZ did on WOIIFTM and Cruising With Ruben.



    YMMV
    I'm sure this is true, but why didn't he tamper with the rest of the albums that those guys play on as well?

  12. #62
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Would the album fit on one disc without that garbage he put on the 2nd disc?
    Yes, if my calculations are correct it would be about 75 minutes and change.

  13. #63
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I'm sure this is true, but why didn't he tamper with the rest of the albums that those guys play on as well?
    Can't we just be thankful he didn't put 'popping Seinfeld bass' on Little House I Used To Live In and Toads Of The Short Forest, without examining why?

    Steve F.

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  14. #64
    Member at least 100 dead's Avatar
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    "Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post

    FZ was a genius, but he was also at times a total dick. Especially to his musicians and especially to his original band.
    Roy Estrada's personal life may justify treating him like a dick . . .

    Just curious, what is the blue streak of Spanish cussing he lets loose? I've always wondered exactly what he says.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Udi

    (b) he thought that his new guys were better players than those old guys and 'more chops' automatically equaled 'better'.
    I've occasionally gotten the impression Frank always felt his later bands were superior to the original MOI. I know there's a line in the explanation of how he chose the material for the You Can't Do That Onstage Anymore set, because by putting it side to side with the later ensembles, he wished to put to bed the myth that "the only really good music" Frank had ever done was with the original MOI. I think he used the phrase "curious fetish" to describe said POV.

  17. #67
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    Roy Estrada's personal life may justify treating him like a dick . . .
    I am not defending Roy, but you don't think Frank encouraged it? He encouraged all his band members to do 'outrageous' stuff. It's very well documented.

    Plus even if Roy 'offended' FZ (doubtful, but let's say yes), it doesn't justify him being a jerk to all the other M.O.I.
    Last edited by Steve F.; 05-05-2015 at 02:25 PM.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    Roy Estrada's personal life may justify treating him like a dick . . .

    Just curious, what is the blue streak of Spanish cussing he lets loose? I've always wondered exactly what he says.
    What track does it occur on? I never noticed anything resembling a "blue streak of profanity" on that album.

    Something I've always wondered: OK< we've established that it's Jimmy Carl Black arguing with Frank on If We All Lived In California. I might have asked this before and don't remember the answer, but why wouldn't the band work at all if they all lived in California. And where was everyone living if they all weren't living relatively close to each other?! How can you even run a band playing that kind of carefully choreographed music if everyone isn't living more or less in the same municipality (or at least the metropolitan area or whatever). I mean, I know it's commonplace for "the big groups" to have people scattered all over the place geographically. But the way Jimmy talks on this track, the MOI were not yet "a big group".

  19. #69
    Member at least 100 dead's Avatar
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    They were all in NYC for some time between 1966 - 68, I think.
    "Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."

  20. #70
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    What track does it occur on? I never noticed anything resembling a "blue streak of profanity" on that album.
    WPLJ. It's in Spanish.

  21. #71
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    WPLJ. It's in Spanish.
    It's fairly incoherent even to native Spanish speakers, both because of the dialect Roy uses and because he's really just babbling, but here are a couple of attempts at interpretation:

    http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Burnt/wplj.html

  22. #72
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    I was thinking about how many times I tried to understand the decisions that Frank made - totally a lost cause. Nobody will ever know why he did what he did... speculation tends to drive you insane when it comes to Zappa. I've finally gotten to a "just enjoy it" place with that music. Uncle Meat is still in my top 5 just for sheer lunacy and editing.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post

    Plus even if Roy 'offended' FZ (doubtful, but let's say yes), it doesn't justify him being a jerk to all the other M.O.I.
    Yeah, I agree with that. My Roy comment was more of a poor joke than anything else. I think the less time spent thinking about that the better.

    And, as I've said before, I like having both versions of both albums. The originals are of course better, but it's fun to hear the other ones every now and then.

    And I'm really glad to have Greasy Love Songs. That's a gem.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    It's fairly incoherent even to native Spanish speakers, both because of the dialect Roy uses and because he's really just babbling, but here are a couple of attempts at interpretation:

    http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Burnt/wplj.html
    Is there nothing that internet can't do?
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  25. #75
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Frank Zappa (and his on again off again 'buddy', Don) are perfect examples of why it's best to separate the art from the artist.

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