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Thread: Led Zep reissues..

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by grego View Post
    3 hours of non-stop performance, with such devotion and emotional power is a good job IMO)
    It is, but it doesn't make the performance "fantastic."

    Sometimes I love listening to the long shows which Zeppelin used to do, but I can also understand the argument that they were ridiculously long-winded and could have used some self-editing. An hour and a half show that leaves you wanting more probably rates higher for many than a three hour show where you've had enough and just wish they'd end the extended solo on "Stairway To Heaven" already.

    And as far as long Zeppelin shows, there are far better than Knebworth; which sounds like a band kind of dying to me. I'd take any of the Seattle shows from '72 to '75 (not '77, which is abysmal) over something like either Knebworth night. Zeppelin's '79 and '80 shows also kind of remind me of ELP circa Works. They just sound a bit confused as to what they are doing with their musical brand. John Paul Jones had gone to a bass tone that would give Greg Lake's late 70s tone a run for its money in a contest for "worst bass tone" any day. Page was kind of all over the place with his playing and tones. I don't know ...

    I don't recall how Page patched together the Knebworth stuff on official DVD footage. I do remember he literally dropped in another guitar part on "Achilles Last Stand" which some might argue was a bit much. Both shows are available in their entirety. I personally would never try to turn anyone on to Zeppelin by showing them either, but they are not horrible either, IMO.

  2. #27
    An interesting post by guitargeek. Given how poorly Jimmy Page plays on some of the reunions where he seems pretty obviously trashed I'd have thought the opposite about when he plays well.

  3. #28
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    so, new old Led Zep stuff, but not remixed by Steve Wilson...mhhh, not good !

  4. #29
    W.P.O.D. Dan Marsh's Avatar
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    I saw Zeppelin three times at the Forum in the 70's.....loved them all!

  5. #30
    I used to have the Knebworth '79 shows and I got rid of them. I have one of the 1980 shows and, while it's better, it's still not great. "Blueberry Hill" is certainly one of the great ones. They were still playing for their lives back then and it showed.
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  6. #31
    Mod or rocker? Mocker. Frumious B's Avatar
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    Love Zep dearly, but my days of repurchasing the catalogs of artists I all ready have ended in 2009 with The Beatles. There's nothing quite exciting enough here for me to fall off the wagon.

  7. #32
    Member Man In The Mountain's Avatar
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    Seeing The Song Remains The Same on the big screen back when I was 13, was a life changing event for me. I wouldn't be on this forum if not being awakened by the 30 minute noodlefest of Dazed & Confused. Up to that point, I thought songs were basically only 4 minutes long. When Jimmy took out that bow, and turned into a wizard shooting out rainbows, then launched into a legendary speed blinding guitar solo, it blew my young impressionable mind.

    Zeppelin rules.

    That said, I've bought those first 3 albums three times already. I'll pass on this revenue stream.

  8. #33
    I was at Knebworth '79 too. Other than a stellar version of 'Kashmir' I found the whole thing under-whelming. I guess Chas 'n' Dave got me off on the wrong footing?

    After several years of Page re-masters headaches, I've spent a bit of time and effort back-tracking to find the Diament-mastered releases, which I'd never previously owned. If the CD and hi-res versions of the new re-masters (previewed on ITunes, which I've not heard, but well received) are as good as expected then I may re-invest. Rather selfishly, I'm sitting this one out until the reviews are in. I've found out in recent years that the latest re-master is not necessarily the best. I'll stick with Diament until I hear better.

  9. #34
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Singh View Post
    + 4. The 80 minute version of Dazed and Confused with the 75 minute useless guitar solo is exhibit A.

    I will gladly buy a 5.1 version of their master work, Physical Graffiti, is that in the cards? Love that record!
    I'll be the sixth... or whatezver... Indeed.... got all the Zerppelin I need....

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    I don't know why people say this. I've heard practically every show from '73 and I think TSRTS movie is pretty damned representative of how good they were at that time. There are better shows but also worse.

    And it has blistering versions of SIBLY, No Quarter, TSRTS, Rain Song ...

    I think some fans want to delete the excessive noodling from their memories, but that stuff was part of their act.
    Never undrestood why TSRTS was dissed as well... The movie was absolutely excellent (saw it a dozen times on friday nights at local second run theatres...

    And to be honest, I was cruelly disappointed by the DVD (now almost a decade old).... If TSRTS build a myth (with all the imagery, it helped), that DVD dismantled it, ARAIC
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  10. #35
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedatolo View Post
    so, new old Led Zep stuff, but not remixed by Steve Wilson...mhhh, not good !
    Lol... even Wison's 0.02$ will not convince me to rebuy them

    Quote Originally Posted by Frumious B View Post
    Love Zep dearly, but my days of repurchasing the catalogs of artists I all ready have ended in 2009
    Yup...

    Quote Originally Posted by Man In The Mountain View Post
    Seeing The Song Remains The Same on the big screen back when I was 13, was a life changing event for me.
    life-changing is maybe a little strong in my own experience, but yeah, it was part of my life's soundtrack
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  11. #36
    Zeppelin was very rusty when they played Knebworth, so it's not surprising that the shows weren't great.

    I have to be in the right frame of mind for live Zeppelin--they took a lot of chances and were often very raw and on edge. You have to be willing to live with the flubs and excess.

    Edit: it sucks that the only way to get the hi-def versions of these releases is to buy the "super deluxed boxed set" version.
    Last edited by profusion; 03-14-2014 at 12:07 PM.

  12. #37
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    I think TSRTS soundtrack shows them at their live best and worst. I find the versions of the then-new, 'Houses Of The Holy' material to be superb- 'No Quarter' is fairly short compared to other versions they did but this is the sort of ensemble improvisation I enjoy from them. The long 'Dazed and Confused' and particularly 'Moby Dick', not so much.

  13. #38
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I saw them on that '77 tour, right after they cancelled a show in Chicago due to Page's "stomach troubles from Willie Dixon's ribs". Anyway, Page was pretty much in control that night and the rest of the gang were equally coherent and lively. In retrospect, the long solos were very self-indulgent but when they were playing something more focused "In My Time of Dying", "Since I've Been Loving You", "Achilles Last Stand", and especially "Kashmir", it was obvious that only the Who could wield so much authority on stage.

    I still have all my Zep on vinyl but those were copies reissued just before the age of CDs. I've tried my best to keep them pristine but that's damn near 30 years ago. I'll be standing in line for this renewing of the revenue stream to get the new vinyl. I suspect that Jimmy will make sure those aren't brickwalled into oblivion.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jcarr73729 View Post
    I was at Knebworth '79 too. Other than a stellar version of 'Kashmir' I found the whole thing under-whelming.
    Well, considering that Kashmir is essentially all rhythm playing, it makes sense.
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  15. #40
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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  16. #41
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    I caught them 4 times altogether, 3 times in early-to-mid '69 (the first time opening for Vanilla Fudge/Paul Butterfield/Iron Butterfly [Page still using the Tele and Rickenbacker amp he used when I saw him with The Yardbirds]; the second time opening for The Who; the third at a festival) and once in '70. In all instances they absolutely stomped.

    I bailed after the fourth LP and have heard only the occasional track from some of the subsequent albums. But, I respect what Page was able to do within the rather limited form of blues rock; in terms of overall conception, specific ideas, and execution his aesthetic was far ahead of the pack. I suspect I'll cop these re-issues.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Wah3 View Post
    An interesting post by guitargeek. Given how poorly Jimmy Page plays on some of the reunions where he seems pretty obviously trashed I'd have thought the opposite about when he plays well.
    I have the understanding that heroin messes up your nerves or your muscles or whatever in such a fashion that it literally makes it impossible for you to do stuff you used to be able to do. There's one musician I know of who I thought had been in an auto accident or had a stroke or something, but I was later told that he simply had been a heavy heroin for many many years. He's apparently totally clean now, but he has trouble walking and talking as a result. I've also heard it suggested that the reasons some bands can't play certain songs anymore is because certain band members who used to be junkies literally no longer have the ability to play the stuff they used to.

    If that's true, it's possible that regardless of Page's state of mind, whether he's wasted or stone cold sober, he'll never be able to do some of the stuff that he used to be able to do on a good night back in the 70's. Yet, he's trying to play songs that require him to be able to play that stuff, and thus demonstrating this in front of the entire world.

    But that's all just supposition on my part. If it's true with Page, it's probably true with any number of musicians who are known to have done junk. Fortunately, Keith Richards always played like that to begin with, so he didn't really have to worry about losing the ability to play Brown Sugar correctly or whatever.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Marsh View Post
    I saw Zeppelin three times at the Forum in the 70's.....loved them all!
    Yeah, that's because you got lucky. I don't know about the 75 tour, but the 77 tour, Page was apparently running hot and cold throughout the tour. There were nights where he and the whole band killed (the LA shows being amongst them), while there were nights that weren't so good. All one has to do is listen to Listen To This Eddie, then watch the Seattle 77 video to see the stark contrast.

  19. #44
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
    AHAHAH!!! Love this! My sentiments exactly; I thought I was the only one in the world that thought this!
    Well everyone is entitled to their opinion but he is technically wrong that these are live because they are just reissues of the studio albums and not live recordings.

    Personally I go back and forth between loving them and liking them and not caring so much. I think over exposure on fm radio has a lot to do with my being a bit burnt out on them though. However, they were the first band I got into not counting the Beatles as a kid. So for me they were the link between the Beatles and top forty pop and the band YES as far as musical interest goes.
    Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Yeah, that's because you got lucky. I don't know about the 75 tour, but the 77 tour, Page was apparently running hot and cold throughout the tour. There were nights where he and the whole band killed (the LA shows being amongst them), while there were nights that weren't so good. All one has to do is listen to Listen To This Eddie, then watch the Seattle 77 video to see the stark contrast.
    The whole mood of the '77 tour was sour, from what I've read. It wasn't just Page's heroin habit. For instance, Plant was not fully recovered from the injuries he suffered in his auto accident and was basically hobbling around the stage as a result. Obviously, it ended tragically when Plant's son died back in England.

    I used to own Listen To This Eddie and still have Goodbye To LA, which was from the last date of that 5-night stand at the Forum. Crazy excess--that show was about four hours long and requires 3 CDs. Some definite high points throughout. Los Angeles was sort of their second home (favorite groupies and all that), so they have played a little better at those shows than in other places.

    I've talked to at least one person years ago who agreed that they were never the same in concert after Led Zeppelin IV. How the West Was Won bears that out, since it's from late in the IV tour, even though they were playing quite a bit of Houses of the Holy material. Everybody seems to have been sharper at that point, especially Page. The earlier concerts on DVD are the same way. The 1969 stuff is just awesome--they were a frickin' machine then.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Never undrestood why TSRTS was dissed as well... The movie was absolutely excellent (saw it a dozen times on friday nights at local second run theatres...
    Well, one reason it gets dissed is because of all the quasi music video stuff, which I gather a lot of people don't like. Speaking for myself, watching Robert Plant pretending to be Leif Ericson or whatever the frell he's supposed to be doing is a bit tedious. Fortunately, Page's "fantasy" sequence is kept brief and Bonzo's is more down to Earth (ie hanging out at the pub, drag racing, and jamming with his son). Jonesy's fantasy goes on for a bit, but it is kind of an interesting take on the actual life he was leading, ie a guy who goes out scaring "normal" people who then goes home and he's a normal family man with a wife, children, etc.

    The non musical bits tend to drag a bit, too. I dug the opening sequences showing Plant and Jonesy with their families, but the bits with Peter Grant are interminable. I can't think of any other concert film where the band's manager gets as much on screen face time as Grant gets here. It's like he somehow didn't get that he was "only just the manager" and not "the star of the show". And yes, I know he did a lot to change the way bands were treated by promoters and such, but that doesn't warrant grinding the whole film to a halt so we can watch Grant throw a shit fit about bootleg merchandise. Dude, you're already getting 10 percent of a gazillion dollars for this tour, why don't you quit worrying about the bootlegs?! And don't get me started on the James Cagney wannabe routine that opens the picture. Oy!

    Then you've got things like that mounted policeman giving a no comment answer to the film crew (though I do like the amusing point that sometimes "no comment" is more incriminating an actual statement). And what's the deal with the (apparently) stoned chick standing on the sidewalk asking people if they have tickets for sale?! I'm mean, some of these bits between the songs just go on and on and on. Honestly, it's like listening to the Grateful Dead "tune up" on an unedited concert tape!

    The musical performances are pretty good, but at least in my estimation (and I think the estimation of at least a few others), some of the bootlegs are better.

    And I'm curious: why do you feel the DVD dismantled "the myth"? I thought the chosen performances were great. And I kinda enjoyed watching Page work his way through the Stairway solo with a broken guitar string.

  22. #47
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    ... but he is technically wrong that these are live because they are just reissues of the studio albums and not live recordings.
    I was referring to the "bonus" ("penalty"?) tracks.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by profusion View Post
    The whole mood of the '77 tour was sour, from what I've read. It wasn't just Page's heroin habit. For instance, Plant was not fully recovered from the injuries he suffered in his auto accident and was basically hobbling around the stage as a result. Obviously, it ended tragically when Plant's son died back in England.
    To say nothing of the Oakland debacle, when Peter Grant and his goons nearly beat a man to death, and got away scot free.

  24. #49
    I will probably buy II, IV and Houses of the Holy on vinyl. I'm simply unsure whether Page can actually make their recordings sound good in digital.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Speaking for myself, watching Robert Plant pretending to be Leif Ericson or whatever the frell he's supposed to be doing is a bit tedious.


    They way the film was shot, they were presented as a five-member band, if you know what I mean.
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