Henry Cow Discussion

[Steve F.]

Why they considered it "unfitting" as HC output I don't know. I just started the book. It might have something to do with the lack of improvisation, or that the songs were written mostly by just Frith and Cutler, or the brouhaha over recording "Erk Gah", which I think happened at about the same time.

I haven't gotten that far but I will guess it's a little bit of all three. And that the band were falling apart and knew they were falling apart and some members didn't want "Hopes And Fears" to be their epitaph note.

[Buddhabreath]

I just want to live in a world where "On Suicide" from "Hopes And Fears" is a top-40 hit. Is that so wrong? I think the times are right for a 45-reissue...

[Scrotum Scissor]

Why they considered it "unfitting" as HC output I don't know. I just started the book. It might have something to do with the lack of improvisation, or that the songs were written mostly by just Frith and Cutler, or the brouhaha over recording "Erk Gah", which I think happened at about the same time.

John, if you listen to "In Two Minds" it gets to be quite obvious; how this now was about the song and the message therein - rather than sbout the message concerning the song. Wa there ever a tune as profoundly -simple- as "In Two Minds" on any HC record?

The fact that there were other plain virtuoso songs on there as well ("Moeris Dancing", for instance) doesn't elude this.

[Baribrotzer]

John, if you listen to "In Two Minds" it gets to be quite obvious; how this now was about the song and the message therein - rather than about the message concerning the song.

To say nothing of how they nicked the sound of the chorus - if not the actual notes - from The Who. So you're saying that the point of "In Two Minds" wasn't the musical language or the political slant of the lyrics - it was really about what it appeared to be about: a girl in early adolescence, depressed or just stressed out by life, whose parents wouldn't leave her alone to try and work out for herself that maybe the problem wasn't her, it was what others expected of her. I wonder whether that song was about Dagmar's actual life experience, perhaps something she talked about to the rest of the band and Chris turned into lyrics; I do know that she was, and maybe still is mentally fragile.

Was there ever a tune as profoundly -simple- as "In Two Minds" on any HC record?

"War" isn't very complicated - although, being that it's by Moore+Blegvad, it might not count as a canonical HC song.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ I respectfully disagree big time on "War"; the basic thememelody is not only polyrhytmic but effectively joints what could have been two separate lines of metre - and the mid-section with Mongezi Feza is not exactly your standard fare.

One of my fave Genesis-songs was always "Harold the Barrel", which makes some of the same moves as "War"; and it pretends to be simple, yet is anything but.

[NogbadTheBad]

Book ordered.

[chalkpie]

^ Interesting... I really need to hear the Art Bears albums. I've been somewhat afraid to, mostly for fear that I'm just not "ready" yet for their music. But I should try eventually.

Dude - you can totally handle that music and then some....you're no amateur at this point You have big ears and an open mind....that is all that is required.

Go for it....wonderful, wonderful albums.....my Art Box is one of my prized possessions.

[wilcox660]

Here's my sole input: I just love Henry Cow. They play with form & expectations with brilliant musicianship & a hefty dose of saucy humor.

[aith01]

^ To put it like this; the Art Bears weren't mainly about performance-music but about statement-music. Absolutely -everything- they did was enhanced to some level of non-musical expression. Yet they were arguably one of the most purely musical and aesthetic combos I ever heard. And I heard Winter Songs before I ever got to take in any Henry Cow, being a hige fan of 'ordinary' progressive rock at the time (which I still love, despite the stupidly applied logic that avant-fanatics somehow can not). One of my best buds at the time, who was also the keys-player in my own band back then and a piano student at the Grieg Academy in Bergen, uttered instantly on hearing "The Bath of Stars" - ...OMG, it's like the Residents but with theoretical chops on music. He consequently brought that weight with him to further greatness as sonic artist himself, inviting Hodgkinson to do the Stop Mortal piece there etc. - while I myself became a friggin' academic.

It's still one of my 25-or-so fave albums, Winter Songs. There's absolutely nothing like the first experience of that record; it changes you forever - and deeply.

Wow, all these years I had thought that Art Bears would be even more performance based and more "difficult" than Henry Cow, simply because they came after. I thought I would need to have a solid handle on all of HCow before even attempting the Art Bears stuff -- no idea where I got that idea from. It sounds like I was way off. Serves me right for not doing my homework!

I know what you mean about the persistent notion that people who like the avant garde stuff cannot appreciate any other kind of music (least of all "regular" progressive rock). It is tiresome.

The following has served me well:

Never be afraid to listen to anything, ready or not; what is the absolute worst that can happen? You've wasted a little bit of time and money? You understand what you like and what you don't like a little better than before? You go 'huh' and put it away until the next time when the same thing happens or - much more interestingly - doesn't happen?

Good advice, Steve. Thank you.

I've taken that approach before, and it has led to some wonderful discoveries -- Pat Metheny Group, Kenso, Brian Wilson, even Magma. So I'm not sure why I psyched myself out on this one.

Dude - you can totally handle that music and then some....you're no amateur at this point You have big ears and an open mind....that is all that is required.

Go for it....wonderful, wonderful albums.....my Art Box is one of my prized possessions.

Thanks, Frank.

In light of all this, I'm off to check out some Art Bears!

[Bob Drake]

I haven't gotten that far but I will guess it's a little bit of all three. And that the band were falling apart and knew they were falling apart and some members didn't want "Hopes And Fears" to be their epitaph note.

And I'm certainly glad they carried on, those Art Bears albums are wonderful!
Chris also tells the story of how Art Bears came about here: http://www.ccutler.co.uk/rioartbearsff.htm#artbears

[The Czar]

^ Just what exactly is to be found on this bonus-CD thing? Is it the same 'leftovers' CD which was enhanced to the previous boxset in hindsight - or is it something else entirely?

No it's new, because they state that if you have the previous box sets, they will sell it separately so you don't have to buy the whole set again to get the new CD & booklet.

Will Wayside carry this new cd?

[The Czar]

Still not sure what that extra CD is called?

[Bob Drake]

Still not sure what that extra CD is called?

I just sent the master off a few days ago, it's called.....prepare yourselves...."COW BONUS 2019".
It has newly discovered recordings never before released, it's even got a late 60's pre-Cutler HC demo, and lots of other studio and live recordings recently found by Chris and from people who recorded them. As usual I spent a LOT of hours trying to get the best from this batch of wildly varying quality recordings,it all came out really good. I think any Cow fan will be pleased.

BD

[trondis23]

Still not sure what that extra CD is called?

I am not sure if the content of that CD is final yet, or if Cutler plans to release even more CDs. Just a few weeks ago he asked if I had some concert tapes which hasn't already been released. Which I have, but probably not in a sound quality that it good enough for a release. I sent him some extracts from the Scandinavian tour in 1976, the same tour where they did the Trondheim concert and the Göteborg concert which is on the Stockholm & Göteborg CD in the Box. It was pieces from Sundsvall and Helsinki. He was very interested in that. So if anyone here have low generation and good sounding tapes or sound files, or know where to find the original, I think that he would be very happy to have it.

[Bob Drake]

I am not sure if the content of that CD is final yet,

It is, see my post just above. But Chris would always be interested in any other recordings for future releases, especially good - sounding (makes my job easier!)

I sent him some (snip) pieces from Sundsvall and Helsinki.

Some of this is included.

BD

[Zeuhlmate]

I have a friend in Oslo who has live recordings from Oslo not published.
He has mentioned & offered them for Chris several times (also in person, I was there), but Chris never returned.
Dunno why.

[unclemeat]

My list of unofficial Cow recordings...
https://www.keepandshare.com/doc19/2...s-pdf-97k?da=y

[calyx]

My list of unofficial Cow recordings...
https://www.keepandshare.com/doc19/2...s-pdf-97k?da=y

Can't access it without a password...

[unclemeat]

Can't access it without a password...

account name : henrycow
password : unclemeat

link valid for 15 days

[Bob Drake]

account name : henrycow
password : unclemeat

link valid for 15 days

OK if I send that to Chris?
BD

[Steve F.]

My list of unofficial Cow recordings...
https://www.keepandshare.com/doc19/2...s-pdf-97k?da=y

One of these (sorry - can't remember but I think it was the June 10th one) was recorded by me on a little hideous mono cassette machine with a built in mic:

1977-06-10 Southend-on-sea aud 89:53 D 2011 (periplo?) [aka London, Queen’s Hotel]
1977-06-12 Guildford *aud 106:19 (sonic residue 2011) [aka 1977-06-06] tctwb

These are the two shows I saw.

My tape sucked dogs and I got rid of it a long time ago but I probably made copies for a couple of folks and that's where it would come from.

I also taped opener Etron Fou.

[Steve F.]

Will Wayside carry this new cd?

if it's sold separately, then absolutely.

[unclemeat]

OK if I send that to Chris?
BD

Sure.

[Bob Drake]

I did, he is quite amazed! I quote: "golly, who knew??"

[flytomars]

My list of unofficial Cow recordings...
https://www.keepandshare.com/doc19/2...s-pdf-97k?da=y

Hey unclemeat,
Perhaps you could shed some light on this-
In my soulseek days I seem to recall someone with many live shows of HC related stuff,
I downloaded many in mp3 format and as I rarely listen to digital they got lost down the road.
However I remember one specifically - a show by Duck and Cover, seems to be taken from the radio (or a good audience recording) I think from a show in Germany,
I cant find any reference that such a thing even exist - did I hallucinate it?