Thread: Henry Cow Discussion

  1. #726
    Is he mentioning that the "Henry Cow - Topic" videos on YT don't allow comments? That's usually true of official album track videos there I think.

  2. #727
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    4,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Pretty interesting that any regular postings of HC tracks on YT all appear to have suspended the commentariat.
    I think that’s standard for “Provided to YouTube by [label/publisher]” posts, whether it’s Henry Cow or Peter Frampton. They’re there for the monetization, not to spark discussion.
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx

  3. #728
    And most of the YouTube comment sections are the worst of the worst. A wasteland wilderness with little of value to offer, IMO. I’m often glad when a YouTube video has the comments turned off, because the general tone of comments there seldom lifts my spirits if I read them.
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  4. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    And most of the YouTube comment sections are the worst of the worst. A wasteland wilderness with little of value to offer, IMO. I’m often glad when a YouTube video has the comments turned off, because the general tone of comments there seldom lifts my spirits if I read them.
    Yes, although some times interesting stuff comes through. I think once or twice I read a discussion with good comments that was lost when someone turned them off.

  5. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post
    Yes, although some times interesting stuff comes through. I think once or twice I read a discussion with good comments that was lost when someone turned them off.
    There can be, certainly. They often get drowned out by the garbage unfortunately.
    "what's better, peanut butter or g-sharp minor?"
    - Sturgeon's Lawyer, 2021

  6. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    What are you saying? NOT clear to muddy headed Steve!
    It means they're coming, Steve. Not only in the yard or up the stairs but eventually/actually into skull and out the ears to blowup nose with flowup hose.



    No, my point was rather that there were a number of feinschmecker reports so easily avaiable (also on individual tracks) but altogether gone now. And the ones that remain omit any possibility of further recension or discourse, so postings seem to meem along in anonymity. There's little to no chance of exchanging off-hand discussion on postings (and their contents) when someone for whatever reason decided that tension arms suspicion or suspension. Give or take or love or hate the mechanism of fixture in colliding opinion or taste, damnation awaits sameness in thought.

    I suppose I merely sensed the dissolution from not finding earlier postings and the fact that the Cow aren't so popular anymore. Here's Kerman's semblance of it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Prehensile Pencil View Post
    A few years ago, Henry Cow's former U.S. label - East Side Digital- told them - and I quote: "The reason there are so few sales (in America) is that no-one here cares for this band anymore. The music has not aged well, and the public's tastes have changed".
    Okay, so the public's taste once supported this? Which shibboleth arranged for redefinitions? When were there more sale? When did anyone "here" care for "this band"? During Live Aid or the Jim Jones massacre? What takes for music to age "well" as opposed to "badly" - pretext, tenure as stature, reaffirmation of fitness?

    There's still an absolute divide among -many- followers of progressive rock chronicles that 'Talmud' (pardon pun) shouldn't include the deviant delinquents and that "dissidents" should rather be confined to footnote or fallacy in view. I think it's a regretful thing that dissonance somehow wasn't permitted to the open in regard to postings mentioned.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #732
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Planet Lovetron
    Posts
    10,810
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post


    Okay, so the public's taste once supported this? Which shibboleth arranged for redefinitions? When were there more sale? When did anyone "here" care for "this band"? During Live Aid or the Jim Jones massacre?
    They had a brief revival during the whole "Where's the beef?" marketing thing.

  8. #733
    Member Piskie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    461
    It's all a load of bullocks isn't it?
    'I would advise stilts for the quagmires"

  9. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    It means they're coming, Steve. Not only in the yard or up the stairs but eventually/actually into skull and out the ears to blowup nose with flowup hose.



    No, my point was rather that there were a number of feinschmecker reports so easily avaiable (also on individual tracks) but altogether gone now. And the ones that remain omit any possibility of further recension or discourse, so postings seem to meem along in anonymity. There's little to no chance of exchanging off-hand discussion on postings (and their contents) when someone for whatever reason decided that tension arms suspicion or suspension. Give or take or love or hate the mechanism of fixture in colliding opinion or taste, damnation awaits sameness in thought.

    I suppose I merely sensed the dissolution from not finding earlier postings and the fact that the Cow aren't so popular anymore. Here's Kerman's semblance of it:



    Okay, so the public's taste once supported this? Which shibboleth arranged for redefinitions? When were there more sale? When did anyone "here" care for "this band"? During Live Aid or the Jim Jones massacre? What takes for music to age "well" as opposed to "badly" - pretext, tenure as stature, reaffirmation of fitness?

    There's still an absolute divide among -many- followers of progressive rock chronicles that 'Talmud' (pardon pun) shouldn't include the deviant delinquents and that "dissidents" should rather be confined to footnote or fallacy in view. I think it's a regretful thing that dissonance somehow wasn't permitted to the open in regard to postings mentioned.
    It was my impression that the period since Lindsay Cooper's death, with the book, the box set and the successor bands (Half the Sky etc.), has seen something of a critical revival for Henry Cow, as is much deserved.
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  10. #735
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    6,207
    Somethin els: How does the remix/master of Legend (and the others) differ from the original?

  11. #736
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    4,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Somethin els: How does the remix/master of Legend (and the others) differ from the original?
    IIRC:
    Legend sounds tremendously different, with a significant amount of parts replaced.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  12. #737
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    6,207
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    IIRC:
    Legend sounds tremendously different, with a significant amount of parts replaced.
    Is it worth having both - or is the remix blasphemy?

  13. #738
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    4,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Is it worth having both - or is the remix blasphemy?
    I got rid of it as soon as I could. I thought the remix was awful. Like on the level of Ruben & The Jets and We're Only In It For The Money awful.

    YMMV
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  14. #739
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    6,207
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I got rid of it as soon as I could. I thought the remix was awful. Like on the level of Ruben & The Jets and We're Only In It For The Money awful.

    YMMV
    Thanks!

  15. #740
    Member Hunchentootz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gig Harbor
    Posts
    202
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Is it worth having both - or is the remix blasphemy?
    I heard the remix FIRST - so it has a place for me - I absolutely LOVE the original though
    Artist formerly known as Phlakaton

  16. #741
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    7,063
    In regards to Leg End, I think the remix isn't as bad as both those FZ/Mothers remixes (BLEHHH!!!), yet I have no need to ever hear it again.

  17. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I got rid of it as soon as I could. I thought the remix was awful.
    I sincerely concur. They even went to measures of actually removing most of Geoff Leigh's saxinput altogether, an ingredient to the fore of impressions on the original album. Further on the balancing of coherent timbre is severed, displacing effects of reverb and treble and drastically adjusting "girth" of space between instruments into something appearing from out of an effin' bunker. The whole thing is somewhat absurd as I hear it now. But I've kept it for reference.

    Remix for the ESD Unrest was apparently way more resolutely moderate (if there was any actual tampering at all?), but the final master came out at such low volume that the release seems almost unplayable. Pointless.

    However, the ESD rendition of In Praise of Learning still deserves some attentive listening - although I would argue that the initial (and to me classic) version (from 1975) expresses more of that organic chemistry needed for joints and voicing in what was arguably the single most elaborate rock composition of its day ("LITHOTB"). The remix sets out to "modernize" not only sonics but presumably also channels of appeal, for what it's worth. The remake is suddenly jarring, harsh or cold in digital approach; merely the sheer exhaustion of opening and discerning all tapetracks of "Living In the Heart of the Beast" to overhall in order for remixing should intimidate any sane engineer, but then again I guess zaniness isn't the primary variable in dealing with this sort of sound to begin with.

    The vinyls sit tight at my place. Analog grace and timid damnation of fate. They spin every six months or so, usually in tandem and accompanied by other recollections of far-reaching advancement in 70s rock like Hatfield, Dün, UZero, Vortex or whatever.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  18. #743
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    4,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post

    Remix for the ESD Unrest was apparently way more resolutely moderate (if there was any actual tampering at all?), but the final master came out at such low volume that the release seems almost unplayable. Pointless.
    ESD's Unrest was not remixed; it was just extremely poorly done.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  19. #744
    Unrest wasn't remixed - evidently they no longer had the multitracks. But - as SS mentioned - the ESD reissue was extremely quiet, which made the later RéR reissue also a major improvement.

    (Sorry, SF beat me to it!)
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  20. #745
    Henry Cow themselves, or at least Frith and Hodgkinson, were dissatisfied with the original mix of Legend. Frith said that they had crammed too much into too little space. And according to Piekuts book it was because all of them wanted to have a hand or a finger on the mixing desk. Collective decision-making doesn't always work. This is probably the reason why Frith removed two guitar parts in the first part of Nirvana for mice. It wasn't a big loss, since they are barely audible. You have to listen to one channel at the time to hear it. But it is basically the same as the intro to Nirvana on side 2, minus the melody. To me the remix sounds much clearer. Hodgkinson was dissatisfied with the sax on Amygdala, because Geoff Leigh was bending the notes. That is probably why he replaced it with Linday Cooper on basson. I don't think that he replaced anything else than the sax on this piece. He also thought that Amygdala would come out better as a separate piece instead of as part of a suite. That is probably why the remix has gaps between the tracks. These two issues are the main problems for me with the remix. Otherwise I don't think it is so bad. I just listened to Amygdala and Nine Funerals, which are on the bonus disk that came with the last version of the boxes, "Ex box Collected Fragments 1971-1978." It sounds very good and clear to me. But it is good music, so maybe it doesn't matter so much which mix you listen to. I am glad that I have both versions.

    I think that the remix of In Praise of Learning is much more radical. On "War" the soprano sax and trumpet aren't balanced - one is hardly audible in the solo part. On "Beast" he has added a ton of reverb and found some sounds that weren't on the original mix. At the end of that song the guitar solos are missing, so it fades out with just the piano. On "Beautiful as the Moon" there are some oboe sounds in one of the parts. There is also a bonus track, "Lovers of Gold", which is a remix of one of the instrumental pieces, but with Dagmar singing. Overall it sounds like a different album.

  21. #746
    I heard the remix of Legend first. I think Lindsay Cooper's bassoon fits on Amygdala better than Geoff Leigh's sax.

  22. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post
    I heard the remix of Legend first. I think Lindsay Cooper's bassoon fits on Amygdala better than Geoff Leigh's sax.
    I kind of agree. I guess we who heard the remix first are more tolerant of it, although ultimately I prefer the original mix, obviously. Interesting alternatives here, and hearing more Lindsay is always a treat.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  23. #748
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    4,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Is it worth having both - or is the remix blasphemy?
    I never seriously compared the two. Having owned the original LP since it came out, I've never really had occasion to play the remix all that often. So I just gave it a spin, and yikes, it's worse than I remembered. The music is so great it would be impossible to ruin it, but the remix really is a bit of a sonic mess.
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx

  24. #749
    Member Piskie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    461
    That goodness-in my ignorance-I bought the original mix!

  25. #750
    The Legend remix was one of the saddest first-time-listens I ever had, after being completely in love for years with the original mix (which, for all its eccentricity, feels perfect to me). The only time I was ever more upset listening to something was the first time I heard “Children of Sanchez” by Chuck Mangione, and that was so upsetting I brought it out to the backyard and stomped it. I wasn’t that demonstrative with the Legend remix, I merely sold it, I didn’t destroy it.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •