Recent big single album boxsets (vinylsize) craze... Worth it or a rip-off??

[Trane]

Haven't bought any of them and probably not planning on... though I did hesitate somewhat on the LTIA thingie...

But I will certainly pass up on the TAAB boxset (plagued with manufacturing bugs I read her PE's thread) as well, despite my loving that album... I've got the original vinyl and the 35th anniv remaster... all I need from that album

=================================

But I've borrowed a few of those boxsets from my library system (next up is DSOTM), but I must say that I wasn't impressed at all.... first, the only one that I've seen/borrowed that actually justify the vinyl format was the Bitches Brew, which has two vinyl discs... and it was also maybe the most interesting package so far...

I've borrowed the Quadrophenia boxset, and despite the nice picture book of the vinyl, it was filled with needless essays and only a few band pics worthy of publishing. Soooo, I was also majorly disappointed by the disc bonusses and the bogus extras, because there was plenty enough space to actually fit the Quad movie DVD... Ditto for Pink Floyd's The Wall >> the least they could've done (for the price asked) was add the live recording of Is There Anybody Out There and the movie...

But so far, the worst seems to be the Wish You Were Here boxset, where out of the five disc, only two of them are of any interest... The new remix is of limited interest, and the video contents are almost totally expandable... and two of these discs are only reproducing what's availabkle on the standard CD and DVD, but in other formats.... so they force you to buy formats you will never need or play... Even worse, this boxsets could take only a third of space it does by reducing its thickness >> that cardboard box is nearly empty... even fitting the original Lp inside it is impossible...



And fuck, most of these boxsets are somewhere between 90 and 120.00 apiece (place €$ or £ behind or in front, it doesn't matter much anymore, once you get up to the third digit)

Thoughts???

[Rael]

For the most part, rip-off. Pink Floyd is one of my favorite bands of all time, but I have absolutely no interest in those box sets.

[flytomars]

From all the boxes you mentioned (and I am ashamed to say I have them all excluding quadrophenia), only the thick as a brick is essential- and the manufacturing glitches got fixed so I would recomend you to buy it.
Also, it is essential to me as a surround sound appreciator.
Had it not been for the surround - none of the new issues would have appealed to me.

[Spiral]

For the most part, rip-off.

Hear hear. I wouldn't say there's any overall rule since it does depend on the band & content, but to me they're basically almost all pointless.

The one exception I can think of is Larks' Tongues in Aspic. A prize video broadcast previously unavailable and a bunch of live music I either didn't have or wasn't released on hardcopy or that wasn't released at all, from a band I have such special affection for.... yeah, that made it worth it. Tho' I would have been even happier buying the discs in a set of jewel cases and ditching the elaborate packaging.

I could be open other such sets if there's enough musical value, but to most of the folks compiling these, musical value barely seems to be a criterion at all.

[Zalmoxe]

And fuck, most of these boxsets are somewhere between 90 and 120.00 apiece

That's cheap!!! The recently released Japanese Kenso Box is over $400. That is crazy!!!

[battema]

I could be open other such sets if there's enough musical value, but to most of the folks compiling these, musical value barely seems to be a criterion at all.

I hope you'll forgive me if I find this incredibly insulting.

[Trane]

That's cheap!!! The recently released Japanese Kenso Box is over $400. That is crazy!!!

Hang on here... I should've specified in the thread title that we're talking of boxsets celebrating a single album, not a whole group's discography.

(I'll ask Duncan or Cozy to change the title , since you can't do it yourself after one hour after opening the thread)

[JKL2000]

But so far, the worst seems to be the Wish You Were Here boxset,

LOL, because Prog magazine readers picked this as the #1 reissue of 2011. I think the Floyd remasters, from what I've read, are aimed at people who don't have any Floyd bootleg recordings, and therefore consider the inclusion of unreleased live recordings to be some kind of amazing find they turned up. And people who like scarved and coasters a lot.

For a lot of these and less recent reissues (especially Floyd and Tull) I have the original MoFi CD releases, so I sort of want to keep using those as my primary playing copies.

[JKL2000]

I hope you'll forgive me if I find this incredibly insulting.

Why, did you compile one of these boxed, album reissues?

[Nearfest2]

But so far, the worst seems to be the Wish You Were Here boxset,

Disagree. The live disc is very cool and the surround mix of the album is mind-bending. Love it.

[battema]

Why, did you compile one of these boxed, album reissues?

Perhaps I misunderstood Spiral. I read compiling as suggesting that those of us who have been buying (i.e. compiling) the boxsets aren't doing it for musical reasons. If that's true then Spiral, I apologize.

I see most of the complaints about these boxes to be excessive. In almost every single case, there are less-costly versions available, usually with some of the more essential extras bundled in (for example, for all the grief over the WYWH box, the Experience edition included a second CD with the live tracks and extras for like $25. And the surround version was made available separately as a SACD).

As always...don't want 'em? DON'T BUY 'EM.

[Trane]

Disagree. The live disc is very cool and the surround mix of the album is mind-bending. Love it.

OK, let's look at that live disc (which only features three tracks: basically Crazy Diamonds, Dogs and Sheeps... and that's it (though it's almost an hour's worth). The other tracks are worthy alternate takes (Cigar and WYWH with Grapelli) are fine bonus tracks... Only for the band to announce after the boxset's commercialisation that they've found a Crazy Diamond section where Wright plays the grand piano (we had a thread on 2.0 about this)... so the bonus alt takes are not even complete

So ok, I find that disc to be the most/only interesting one from the five in the boxset... Excuse for feeling ripped off, if I had indulged into it...


Now of course if you're a surround fan; how do you feel about being forced to buy the "normal" Cd and DVD
The point I'm also making (outside the bonus sonic material, which is fully debatable) is that you're buying the same thing three times...

[Trane]

I see most of the complaints about these boxes to be excessive. In almost every single case, there are less-costly versions available, usually with some of the more essential extras bundled in (for example, for all the grief over the WYWH box, the Experience edition included a second CD with the live tracks and extras for like $25.

And the surround version was made available separately as a SACD).

QED, indeed...

Was it?? Didn't know

[battema]

Here's the SACD:

http://www.amazon.com/Wish-Were-Here...were+here+sacd

[Spiral]

Perhaps I misunderstood Spiral. I read compiling as suggesting that those of us who have been buying (i.e. compiling) the boxsets aren't doing it for musical reasons. If that's true then Spiral, I apologize.

No no, I didn't mean that at all. I meant the people making these things. And yes, it was a generalization that's not always deserved, but I do sometimes get the impression it's more about making The Big Package than really making sure the contents are worthwhile enough to justify it. Wilson & Singleton made a cracking behind-the-scenes studio documentary CD for the Larks' set, but I think we can all agree that not all of these big sets show that level of care & attention.

I see most of the complaints about these boxes to be excessive. In almost every single case, there are less-costly versions available ... don't want 'em? DON'T BUY 'EM.

Nobody's forcing anyone to buy any of these, true enough, but the question was more about whether it's really worth it. Or--maybe a more interesting question--what are the factors that do make such an endeavor worth it? I at least find it interesting to see the different things people have been trying and considering the different ways the bonuses work or don't work together. It's not all a big gripefest, however often these threads seem like it sometimes.

[Trane]

From all the boxes you mentioned (and I am ashamed to say I have them all excluding quadrophenia),

Well if you're not ashamed enough (jk ), the Quad boxset features the whole album in "work-in-progress" style with Townsend singing all of the tracks... worth hearing once, certainly... glad I borrowed it...

[flytomars]

Now of course if you're a surround fan; how do you feel about being forced to buy the "normal" Cd and DVD
The point I'm also making (outside the bonus sonic material, which is fully debatable) is that you're buying the same thing three times...

Of course I find it redundant, but what other choice do I have to get it?

Oh, and Trane - yes it was out on SACD, but quite an expensive one (40$ if memory serves).
So the 2CD experience edition and the SACD cost about half, had I known before I pre-oredered perhaps thats what I would have done.
(but then ide be missing some videos and the quad version which is a blast).

[Trane]

Of course I find it redundant, but what other choice do I have to get it?

Which is the point I was trying to make in the thread title (or QED, if you wish)

As for the video content of WYWH, you're missing absolutely nothing... and certainy not Thorgersson's animation bits ... He should definitely stick to still artworks

[JKL2000]

Perhaps I misunderstood Spiral. I read compiling as suggesting that those of us who have been buying (i.e. compiling) the boxsets aren't doing it for musical reasons. If that's true then Spiral, I apologize.

I see most of the complaints about these boxes to be excessive. In almost every single case, there are less-costly versions available, usually with some of the more essential extras bundled in (for example, for all the grief over the WYWH box, the Experience edition included a second CD with the live tracks and extras for like $25. And the surround version was made available separately as a SACD).

As always...don't want 'em? DON'T BUY 'EM.

Yeah, pretty sure he meant the people from the labels or whoever compiles them - I figured that was just confusion.

RE: the big box sets, I think it's that the sets often include a couple of nuggets of interesting stuff, with a lot of useless shit thrown in. Both the trinkets that they for some reason think there's ANYONE IN THE WORLD besides them who thinks that crap belongs in a box set. I can see stuff like what the Grateful Dead puts in - they've included really interesting copies of old GD Fan Club mailings, copies of letters from GD management provided to venue management, some really cool stuff. And even reproduced tickets can be interesting. But when they start making the boxes bigger so they can put in scarves and coasters - that just seems dumb.

And then the idea of combining multiple formats in one box is dumb too. It's one thing if the formats are the same size, like DVD and Blu-Ray, but when the PRIMARY format is a CD that's about 4 ", why also include a format that's 12"? Again, just seems dumb.

If music does all eventually go to all downloadable files, I can see these labels will still be putting out giant boxed sets with nothing but trinkets and auxilliary shit in them. The Floyd sets haven't been bothering me, because I have all the Floyd music and books I need. Same with Tull really.

[flytomars]

Well if you're not ashamed enough (jk ), the Quad boxset features the whole album in "work-in-progress" style with Townsend singing all of the tracks... worth hearing once, certainly... glad I borrowed it...

Actually, its being sold as we speak in Popmarket with a 41% discount-
And still it looks expensive to me...
If it had the full album in surround instead of just 8 songs, then I would have bought it.

[Nearfest2]

Now of course if you're a surround fan; how do you feel about being forced to buy the "normal" Cd and DVD
The point I'm also making (outside the bonus sonic material, which is fully debatable) is that you're buying the same thing three times...

I don't get my panties in a bunch about it.

[Spiral]

I think it's that the sets often include a couple of nuggets of interesting stuff, with a lot of useless shit thrown in. ... And then the idea of combining multiple formats in one box is dumb too.

Yes. This is one of the biggest reasons I can't be bothered. But at the same time the trend seems inevitable, possibly because of this:

If music does all eventually go to all downloadable files, I can see these labels will still be putting out giant boxed sets with nothing but trinkets and auxilliary shit in them.

I think this is one factor in the rise of this trend in the first place. If people aren't buying plain ol' CD albums the way they used to, it only makes sense for the artists or labels to sweeten the hardcopy deal with the kind of extras people can't steal digitally. First it was extra songs, then the bonus DVD with some videos, etc. But these days it's just as easy to spread entire DVDs' worth of video, so who should be surprised by coasters and mini-amps? The jumbo box is just the same logic taken to a further degree, albeit a ridiculous one.

I just wish the extra music didn't get tied together with the useless shit.

[battema]

*shrug*

The only complaint I had about the marbles in the PF box(es) was that they kind of kept the cover from closing tightly. So I stuck 'em in a ziploc bag and stored 'em away in a box somewhere.

I don't see the little frills like coasters, etc., being the thing that drive the price up (granted, they make the box physically bigger). And everything else in the boxes, the CDs, extras, DVDs, Blu Rays plus some pretty excellent booklets, etc...honestly, I felt I got my money's worth.

If I really love an album, I enjoy hearing remasters/remixes because they can be different perspectives into music that I love (sometimes the differences are subtle, other times not so much). So it isn't like I'm literally buying the exact same album a second or third time.

That said, I don't think anyone has perfectly nailed it yet. Genesis did two somewhat exhaustive archive sets and all the boxes but still left some b-sides and things out. PG left out a surround mix of 'So' and the various b-sides. PF's Wall didn't have a surround mix, and bundled in a live set that had fairly recently been remastered (IMHO that was the biggest misstep that PF made). KC does a pretty damned good job, with a fairly exhaustive set of material for 'Larks.' They aren't quite boxes, but I thought both the ELP deluxe remasters were pretty lackluster.

Klaus Schulze pretty much did a great job with his various Editions, with 10 and 30-disc sets of *only* unreleased material. Ditto for Henry Cow's very cool set.

I imagine what the hardcore folks want is archive sets featuring ONLY the extras and things, no repeat material whatsoever (remastered/remixed or otherwise), and *all* the extras at the most bargain pricing available.

[battema]

QED, indeed...

Actually, no. The point is that the less costly versions have some of the extras, but not all. For some folks that'll be enough; others might decide to spring for the bigger package.

Dark Side had an additional disc of unreleased material. The Wall had two whole CDs of demos and alternate versions. WYWH had the Blu Ray with the surround stuff (I don't do SACD). PG's So had the DNA disc and the concert DVD. And so on.