The Musical Box - "Selling England By The Pound" SF 2/22

[the winter tree]

Denis Gagne IS Peter Gabriel ;-) Though not quite as convincing as Phil Collins during the "Trick" tour...

But seriously, he does seem to channel Gabriel during his performances. I saw him and some of the band before one of their "Lamb" shows in NJ a few years ago getting take out at the Indian joint across the street from the theater. He even appeared to me to have that "seemingly stoned out of his mind but completely straight" vibe that Gabriel used to emanate.

[Paulrus]

Here's an odd one: A link from the more hipsterish of the two Portland alternative weeklies. (Yes, we have two of them.)

http://www.portlandmercury.com/portl...t?oid=11839110

I can't quite make up my mind about the point of it: Is it exactly what it appears to be? Or is it a piece of particularly deadpan post-modern satire, like printing a quarrel between Star Wars and Star Trek fans verbatim, and expecting sufficiently hip readers to get the implied snarkiness? (That latter approach being one the Mercury is notable for.) I suppose it could be both, although it's a bit long for a joke. Although the longwindedness, of course, might be part of the point - that since prog songs, instead of stopping after three minutes as they should and must, tend to go on for an additional ten minutes, the article does that too.

That was actually pretty cool. If those two weren't as genuinely knowledgeable about old Genesis as they make out to be then they had me fooled. I'm sure they had to look up the exact spelling of things like "Ikhnaton and Itsacon and Their Band of Merry Men", but their observations are too on the money to be faked. I just get the feeling it's two guys who really like that music who finally get to let it all hang out. And the longwindedness does seem like a gag, especially going into the whole Phil and Genesis in the 80s stuff. But I thought it was really fun.

And I'm with Dave: Selling England is superior to Foxtrot.

[JeffCarney]

Mike Rutherford made a mistake in saying that The Musical Box do it "better than they ever did."

I see this idea was sort of referenced in the Portland column.

The issue I have with this is that:

A: It's bullshit.
B: It was probably just Rutherford overstating things a bit, or being humble.
C: It's bullshit.

I've seen The Musical Box three times and appreciate them greatly, but anyone with even a half a dozen decent bootlegs from the eras they "cover" could not possibly believe that they do "Genesis better than Genesis." I don't doubt they can do it better now than Genesis could now, but Genesis on a good night during the SEBTP tour was a force to be reckoned with. Other-level stuff.

[rich]

And I'm with Dave: Selling England is superior to Foxtrot. [/QUOTE]

I've been a Genesis fan for 40 years and I can say I have agreed with this this opinion... until recently. What an exceptional album Foxtrot truly is. Watcher, Get Em Out by Friday and Suppers Ready are true Genesis classics but Can Utility in my opinion has joined that league. What a great song that is and it really embodies everything that is great about Genesis in under six minutes! Somehow in my mind it flew under the radar somewhat, always loved it but in recent years i've come to think of it as one of their greatest songs. Horizons of course is an acoustic master piece which leaves Time Table... maybe the weakest track on the LP but not exactly a slouch. Which album is better... flip a coin! Two Classics!!

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

@Jeff: While I agree with you in the specific case of TMB, there's no particular reason a "tribute" band couldn't "play Genesis better than Genesis." The music is the music, and the players are the players. Writing and playing are two separate things.

(It's kind of like classical music - should we assume that Leonard Bernstein and the New York Phil couldn't play Beethoven's Ninth "better" than the orchestra with which Beethoven conducted it?)

[firth5th]

The thing with TMB, is they try to replicate the studio versions as closely as possible. The real Genesis breathed a lot more fire into the live versions. Collins/Rutherford were a hell of a rhythm section, and added new grooves to the songs live which gave them a lot of passion.

Daryl Steurmer saw TMB and said although they were good, they lacked passion and were not the great and exciting live band which was a Genesis trademark.

[Yves]

Mike Rutherford made a mistake in saying that The Musical Box do it "better than they ever did."

I see this idea was sort of referenced in the Portland column.

The issue I have with this is that:

A: It's bullshit.
B: It was probably just Rutherford overstating things a bit, or being humble.
C: It's bullshit.

I've seen The Musical Box three times and appreciate them greatly, but anyone with even a half a dozen decent bootlegs from the eras they "cover" could not possibly believe that they do "Genesis better than Genesis." I don't doubt they can do it better now than Genesis could now, but Genesis on a good night during the SEBTP tour was a force to be reckoned with. Other-level stuff.

I think you could argue that they do a better job at sounding like the albums than Genesis did live. Personally, I don't think that equates to 'doing it better'. They have also played these songs way more often than Genesis ever did, agonizing over every minute point. Again, to me, that does not equate with 'doing it better'.

[JeffCarney]

@Jeff: While I agree with you in the specific case of TMB, there's no particular reason a "tribute" band couldn't "play Genesis better than Genesis." The music is the music, and the players are the players. Writing and playing are two separate things.

(It's kind of like classical music - should we assume that Leonard Bernstein and the New York Phil couldn't play Beethoven's Ninth "better" than the orchestra with which Beethoven conducted it?)

But you've turned a specific into a general.

My point was specific. I take your point but I can't say I can think of many examples in rock music.

FTR, as much as I enjoy them, The Musical Box are not the "players" that Genesis were.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

Oh, I can think of LOTS of examples in rock music - though generally it's only single songs:

The Who - "Summertime Blues"
The Beatles - lots of '50s tunes
Cheap Trick - "Ain't That a Shame"

etc., etc.

[JeffCarney]

Oh, I can think of LOTS of examples in rock music - though generally it's only single songs:

The Who - "Summertime Blues"
The Beatles - lots of '50s tunes
Cheap Trick - "Ain't That a Shame"

etc., etc.

Surely many examples would be purely subjective.

Anyway ... so that we don't get off track, I don't think The Musical Box does Genesis better than Genesis. That's really my only point. Adding an acoustic guitar to the end of "Dancing With the Moonlit Knight" like the album might be kind of cool, for example, but I think Mike Rutherford was simply carried away in his enthusiasm.

[firth5th]

Surely many examples would be purely subjective.

Anyway ... so that we don't get off track, I don't think The Musical Box does Genesis better than Genesis. That's really my only point. Adding an acoustic guitar to the end of "Dancing With the Moonlit Knight" like the album might be kind of cool, for example, but I think Mike Rutherford was simply carried away in his enthusiasm.

Plus I heard that many musicians think they are dying up there on stage, when the audience thinks its great. In fact, Rutherford quotes Charlie watts making that point.

In the band, he probably sees and hears all the warts and flaws, but watching a competent band reenact his shows let's him view things more objectively.

Rutherford never saw a genesis concert in person.

[Paulrus]

Plus I heard that many musicians think they are dying up there on stage, when the audience thinks its great. In fact, Rutherford quotes Charlie watts making that point.

In the band, he probably sees and hears all the warts and flaws, but watching a competent band reenact his shows let's him view things more objectively.

Rutherford never saw a genesis concert in person.

Exactly. According to most accounts nobody was more critical of Genesis than Genesis themselves -- ridiculously so, it seems. So Mike sitting back leisurely watching The Musical Box grind out "Watcher of the Skies" for the umpteenth time probably does look and sound better than what he recalls of him and the band doing it 500 years ago when they were like 12 years old.

[Burble]

Well, I just saw them tonight in Portland, and they absolutely crushed it. I really can't say anything that hasn't already been said, except maybe that seeing how they create all the musical textures in all those tunes is really impressive. I mean, you can listen to it and understand how it's done, but to see them carry it off live like that is really, really impressive. The detail of the performance was impossibly good. Denis Gagne looks disconcertingly like Harry Shearer at times, though.