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Thread: "Give Me That Old Time Prog Rock"

  1. #51
    éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é Don Arnold's Avatar
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    As always when we toss out our opinions on the terms Prog, prog, Progressive, progressive, etc it makes for mostly interesting discussion. For me though, at the end of the day, you can call it what you want, but I love listening to this stuff!

    Whether it's those "golden age" bands like Yes, Genesis, ELP, etc., or the 80's bands that seemed to kick start a resurgence of all things Prog, or the lesser known off-the-beaten-track bands that record music on the more experimental side, or the 90's + bands such as The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard that offer up a throw-back to the pioneers of the genre whilst still having a sound of their own, or the newer bands that continue to come onto the scene and make great records....I enjoy 'em all (well, mostly all ).

    And, I believe that's why we're all here at Progressive Ears - we share this passion for these bands that most around our wonderful globe simply don't get!

    I say...continue to bring it on!

    And Prog on! (or prog on)

  2. #52
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Show me a classic, good, prog album from the first wave of prog bands released after 77 and I'll change my mind.
    Jethro Tull - Heavy Horses - 1978

  3. #53
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherrynoland View Post
    Like who? Anyone we all know like Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, etc?
    Tangerine Dream?

  4. #54
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yanks2014 View Post
    I disagree with both of you. Many of the bands that the elites describe as truely progressive but not "prog" are mostly unlistenable to me. As to trying too hard to sound like classic prog, I don't get that at all. Lots of amazing groups today making music INSPIRED by the classic prog bands, not a bad thing at all to my ears. And no, not all of them are overtly retro. I can't stand this negativity about prog by prog fans, and looking down on artists who choose to make music in a similar fashion as their old heroes. And so many of these artists have their own take on the genre, so it's still ever changing except for the most retro of groups.
    Thomas, this is purely your perspective, one shared by many, there are also many of us (though probably not as many) with the alternative view. That's what makes it fun, it's all just differing opinions. I've been listening to This Heat, The Works and Mr Bungle today who are all clearly progressive and not at all related to Big Whatever Symph.
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  5. #55
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    I don’t wholly disagree with some of the points in the article. But it does have the feel of something written around 2002, and 12 years later I’d say the scene is still as, or more, artistically diverse and interesting as it was then. So his premise that the “revival” is past its peak and on decline seems to be a somewhat premature conclusion.

    Like the author, I feel there are a few bands that have “breathed new life” into classic-styled Prog Rock over the past decade (now two decades) since the early 90s. The problem is, I’m not sure the bands I would list always intersect with his, and that others would have even different lists. What moves some won’t touch or impress others, and vice versa, so there is no one list of music that is “valid” in this regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    It's my belief that prog fans and musicians are divided into two categories: Those in love with the sound and those in love with the spirit.

    With that in mind, I believe there are also two kinds of modern bands that are called 'prog', those who are in love with the sound and those in love with the spirit.

    I think the author's point is that far too many modern bands are in love with the sound and not the spirit. The spirit of progression is universal and alive in all arts and music. The bands who started progressive rock were in love with the spirit and developed the sound (moogs, hammonds, etc). I think a truly progressive modern band should sound nothing like those older bands (see Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Miriodor, Knifeworld, etc, etc), but still share a pioneering spirit.
    That’s an interesting way of putting it. I don’t totally disagree. But…

    The problem we continually seem to stumble over is this concept of “progressive.” I’m not sure any other musical genre has so much pressure on it to constantly reinvent itself and embrace literally everything as “Progressive Rock.” I’m a causal fan of Gypsy Jazz. I’ve been to a couple of festivals, have a few CDs, and even own a Maccaferri-style guitar. The Gypsy Jazz scene is dominated by the spiritual presence of Django Reinhardt. People still want to play the guitars he used, learn his licks, and even configure their groups after what he and Grappelli did.

    That said, the Gypsy Jazz scene has a number of very interesting new artists who, while clearly working in this general genre, are doing lots of innovative and interesting things. More importantly, they are making music that people like. Who the hell cares if sounds like Django or that they’re playing it on a Maccaferri Oval Hole with matching oval position markers at the 10th fret? If you like the music, the “recreationist” aspects of it don’t diminish your enjoyment one bit.

    Gypsy Jazz isn’t plagued by this incessant demand to “evolve.” In fact if it evolved beyond certain parameters, it probably wouldn’t still be recognized as Gypsy Jazz (though the parameters seem broad enough to embrace a reasonably diverse scope of music). And Gypsy Jazz is just one of many examples like this. Why does it seem that Prog Rock is held to such a different standard in this regard? Would it be different if it weren’t called “Progressive Rock?”

    Also, I think so, so many of the bands that are trotted out as exemplifying the “spirit” of progression in rock are those that borrow more heavily from the Henry Cow, Univers Zero, or Zappa camps, than the Yes/ELP/Genesis model. It isn’t hard to identify their influences, most of which reside in 60s/70s models just like the more Symph oriented modern bands. It’s hard to be “totally new” when so much has been done. And aside from a small number of extreme listeners, is a “totally new” sound really what most want anyway?

    Bill

  6. #56
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    Hear, hear, Don Arnold!

    I can't resist commenting...

    To all musicians: Forget about genres!

    More than anything else, this article is about the exceptionally wide range of music these musicians had absorbed growing up crashing head-on into rock 'n' roll!

    Though this combo was new, it was all music that people could relate to, and that's why it had mass appeal and soared in popularity, beginning with the young, progressive, vital people of their day. Some of the Beatles' early recordings were covers of some of their "old" influences and they progressed from there, growing ever more expressive of what was "in" them.

    It has to come from the heart (spirit as zombywoof said), not just the head. That's what great music that touches the masses IS. It has no genre for the artist because they're HEARING it and then playing it, not thinking and planning it. It's others who create genres when they try to describe the new thing they hear.

    When artists are in creative mode, they're empty and open (no thoughts, no plans, no genres), and the music comes to them. That's what we need more of if we want a new golden age (which requires "hits"—the notice of the masses), or a resurgence—whatever you'd like to call it.

    For all the musicians here, a friendly word of advice from someone who has had the opportunity to live for over thirty years with someone who demonstrates this to me every day: forget genres and play—have fun! That's where the great "hit" tunes that last come from. They may be few and far between, but they only come to a sincere, open heart, forsaking all else.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by sherrynoland View Post
    Hear, hear, Don Arnold! [...] To all musicians: Forget about genres!
    With all due respect, but I can hardly think of anyone *MORE* into "genre" - and one specific in particular - than The Flower Kings or Spock; it's the basic principle of not being able to reach what your idols did by walking in their footsteps, you'll have to share NOT their creative vision, but their vision of being creative.

    What's impressive is the fact that there have been contemporary artists far outdoing the artistic/musical (but hardly commercial) accomplishments of the 70s big names while completely lacking the financial means to back it.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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    Just keep at it, and keep your heart open and pure. That's all an artist can do. The rest is "up to the gods" and you shouldn't let it concern you. Not easy, I know, but essential.

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    And if you manage to accomplish that great feat and produce something that the WORLD takes note of, I'll stand by your side and fight tooth and nail to keep anyone from stealing whatever compensation the world would want to offer you..big or small.

  10. #60
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherrynoland View Post
    Just keep at it, and keep your heart open and pure. That's all an artist can do. The rest is "up to the gods" and you shouldn't let it concern you. Not easy, I know, but essential.
    You are clearly a Belieber.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginod View Post
    There are now approximately 10,563 progressive rock bands for every 1 progressive rock fan. Do the meth.
    corrected your spelling error

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Jethro Tull - Heavy Horses - 1978
    Great album, the only thing is I've never considered JT a prog band & that album is certainly not prog IMO, folky-hard rock is what JT are IMO.

  13. #63
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Show me a classic, good, prog album from the first wave of prog bands released after 77 and I'll change my mind.
    You've probably got arguments against all of these not fitting neatly in the little box.

    King Crimson - Discipline
    Hackett - Spectral Morning
    Oldfield - Incantations
    Yes - Drama
    National Health - Of Queues & Cures
    Pink Floyd - The Wall
    Henry Cow - Western Culture
    UK - UK
    Hawkwind - Levitation
    Ian

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  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Great album, the only thing is I've never considered JT a prog band & that album is certainly not prog IMO, folky-hard rock is what JT are IMO.
    It doesn't matter what "you" consider; rock history acknowledges JT as a progressive rock band, and they were considered as such with large audiences during the 70s and with writers during the 80s and way beyond.

    I've never seen "folky-hard rock" [sic] figured as a genre, though.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    You've probably got arguments against all of these not fitting neatly in the little box.
    Yea, probably

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    It doesn't matter what "you" consider; rock history acknowledges JT as a progressive rock band
    It matters to me, and I don't care what rock history does or doesn't acknowledge. I trust my ears. Anyway, define rock history?

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    If KC reformed under the name "Discipline" as planned, would anyone see the album Discipline as being progressive rock? I think that's the (kinda stupid and pedantic) issue here

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Anyway, define rock history?
    Well, the good one is usually written by someone who knows what the hell he or she is talking about and takes reasonable arguments (to which "reality is what I SAY it is!" does not belong) into serious consideration - which somehow sets the rule for fruitful discussion in the first place as well.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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    But you just seem to like using fancy words & arguing when people don't agree with you.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    But you just seem to like using fancy words & arguing when people don't agree with you.
    Perhaps you should start by actually handling or at least answering the given arguments that are posed towards your string of self-assured statements, instead of farting about with "I/me/no/don't " - seeing how this is supposed to be a discussion forum and you aren't in any way discussing. For "disagreement" to occur, there needs to be a certain level of general conviction as to the knowledge by which you swear those statements - and this knowledge just doesn't quite seem to appear.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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    My world is Grey. I've said what I think. I disagree with you. I don't need to discuss it further nor do I need to support my views or refute yours.

    Jazz izn't rock
    Clazzical muzic izn't prog rock
    Folk izn't jazz
    & all variationz of thoze elementz

    BUTZ
    Progrezzive muzic can be anything that progrezzez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    "The golden age of progressive rock ended 25 years ago"

    That is only true in my opinion if the article was written in 2002!

    Show me a classic, good, prog album from the first wave of prog bands released after 77 and I'll change my mind.

    Animals 77
    Rain Dances 77
    Relayer 74
    Red 74
    Wind & Wuthering 76
    Brain Salad Surgery 73
    Free Hand 75
    Ommadawn 75
    Genesis ATTWT, Duke
    ELP Works vol. 1 and vol. 2
    National Health s/t, Of Queens and Queues
    Gilgamesh Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into(79)
    Yes Drama
    Camel Nude
    King Crimson Three Of A Perfect Pair
    Godley/Creme L
    Bruford One of a Kind, Graduallo Going Tornado
    Henry Cow Western Culture
    Robert Fripp Let The Power Fall
    Oregon Roots in the Sky, Moon and Mind..
    Weather Reprot Mr.Gone, Night Passage, 11..
    Chick Corea Mad Hatter
    Al Di Meola Casino
    Jeff Beck There and Back

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  24. #74
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Jethro Tull - Heavy Horses - 1978
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Great album, the only thing is I've never considered JT a prog band & that album is certainly not prog IMO, folky-hard rock is what JT are IMO.
    Well, that's convenient. Not only do I consider JT a prog band and HH a prog rock album, HH is a classic, core album for the band. I almost included Stormwatch (1979) which also qualifies, IMO, but was pretty sure you'd not consider it "classic" enough.

  25. #75
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    It doesn't matter what "you" consider; rock history acknowledges JT as a progressive rock band, and they were considered as such with large audiences during the 70s and with writers during the 80s and way beyond.

    I've never seen "folky-hard rock" [sic] figured as a genre, though.
    Also, he's effectively saying that no songs on Heavy Horses are prog. If the nine-minute song Heavy Horses isn't prog, then "Five Per Cent for Nothing" isn't prog, therefore Yes is not a prog band.

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