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Thread: Paul Stanley on R&R Hall Of Fame - Not An Honor

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Always wondered why "WKRP In Cincinnati" instead of Cleveland.
    The show was largely based on WQXI in Atlanta.


    From Wiki...

    While Andy Travis received his name and some personality elements from a cousin of creator Hugh Wilson, he was based primarily on innovative program director Mikel Herrington, who also was the inspiration for the character Jeff Dugan in the 1978 film FM, written by Ezra Sacks who had worked at KMET. Dr. Johnny Fever was based on a DJ named "Skinny" Bobby Harper at WQXI/790 in Atlanta, Georgia (in 1968). WKRP writer Bill Dial worked with Harper at WQXI, which is considered Dial's inspiration for the show. Coincidentally, Harper had previously worked at Cincinnati AM Top 40 powerhouse WSAI in 1964, before moving to 11 other stations, including seven in Atlanta. In 1997, Bobby Harper told WSB's Condace Pressley, "He went on record as pointing out which ones, including myself, that he based the characters on. [That recognition] was a nice little thing. You know? That was nice. I appreciated that."

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    I was not speaking of songs used for commercial use. I spoke directly about merchandise.

    Did the Beatles make money off of their merchandise? I was going by this:



    That is why I stated they were dumb to let others control the merch instead of themselves.

    KISS has had total control of their merch from the start.
    My point is that The Beatles got nothing from the merchandising. They never saw a penny. It was a major blunder on Brian Epstein's part, actually. He later stated that they were basically making it up as they went along. Estimates are that they, essentially, lost out on about $100,000,000.

    Ever hear of Seltaeb? This is worth the read:

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    one with the best burger I've ever had in my life; not haute cuisine, but who cares...and there's plenty of that to be found if you want it.
    Where was that? I might take the family there in June to see Ringo and his band and the HOF. There's actually a Ringo tribute of some kind going on. So, you never know. We might run into him at the Hall.
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  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Don't forget Cleveland Rocks by Ian Hunter, written about his love for that city.
    It might be I'm slightly "too young" to remember that song, but for years, I thought that stupid song was merely the WMMS FM TV commercial jingle. It wasn't until sometime in the late 80's that I finally found out there was more to that song than just that chorus. Of course, my first exposure to Ian Hunter was Central Park West and...oh shit, what was that other song...All The Good Ones Are Taken, that's it!

    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    I thought that Peter sang lead because he had a Rod Stewart-type voice?
    Beth was a big hit for Kiss. I can easily see Neil Bogart saying "Can you give me another Beth", and since Paul had Hard Luck Woman sitting around, it became the follow up to Beth. And yeah, Peter's voice brought it closer to sounding like Rod The Mod, which is what Paul had in mind when he was writing the song.

    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Did Alice, Bowie, or Lou spit fire and blood. Also, did they wear costumes making them look like superheroes? I don't think so.
    Did Lou Reed ever go in for theatrics? I know he had a back up band that apparently upstaged him on the live album, but I still believe Rock N Roll Animal saw those songs being cast in a way better light than they were on any of the studio version.

    As for Coop and Bowie, they went big into theatrics. Watch the Ziggy Stardust footage. Bowie did a lot of stuff with costume changes and what not. There's also the famous about the hydraulic lift he used on one tour, which left him marooned 20 feet above the audience on at least one occasion.

    Coop did all kinds of stuff, judging from the bits and pieces of video footage I've seen. He got chased around the stage by monsters, giant spiders, he of course was "executed" on a nightly basis, and for one song he even did a tap dance routine (in fact, he met his wife when she was hired to teach him how to dance for the Welcome To My Nightmare tour).

    Gene and Paul like blow smoke up people's asses about Kiss being "the greatest show on Earth" or whatever. A Kiss show can be a lot of fun...Gene breathing fire and flying up into the lighting rig for God Of Thunder , Ace doing the smoking and levitating guitar illusions during Shock Me, Peter's levitating drum riser. I mean it's a great, fun show to see.

    But no way was the Kiss stage show better than Coop, Diamond Dogs era Bowie, Pink Floyd circa 74-80, Genesis circa 73-76, Yes circa 74-76, I mean, there's been all kinds of bands that put great stage shows, which are at least as good as Kiss. Whether any of them were "better" I suppose would be subjective.

    I mean, c'mon, Iron Maiden has a 10 foot Eddie grace the stage on a nightly basis. How is anyone supposed to compete with that?!

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Did Alice, Bowie, or Lou spit fire and blood. Also, did they wear costumes making them look like superheroes? I don't think so.
    Were Alice, Bowie, or Lou named Gene, or Paul, or Peter or Ace? I don't think so. Were Alice, Bowie, or Lou called KISS? I don't think so. Only then does it count!
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  5. #80
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
    Yep, no one played the merchandising game better than KISS. Oh, wait-


    And no, I'm not trying to compare the two bands musically. Just stating a fact.
    If you go back through the thread, none of what you are posting is disputed.....My claim was always that KISS was never as popular as the Beatles, but - in the mid 1970s -- they were certainly a distant second place tie (somewhere in The Stones and The Who's neighborhood) and no other band has come close since. They are the only other band besides The Beatles in which the non-musician/non-audiophile general public, regardless of ethinicity or music orientation, knew the names of all the members. (Motley Crue probably is in this realm also although Im not sure how well their individual names are known to the average listener not into their genre)

    Even Led Zeppelin was Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, John Gonzo, and the other guy to the masses in the same way The Rolling Stones were Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, and some other dudes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Don't know about you dude, but I was there back then, and I know what the standards were and what they are now. KISS was a fun rock and roll band, but comparing them to Alice Cooper is like comparing Pat Boone to Little Richard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Korrekt, no comparison!
    *sigh* Like a broken record in this thread: the topic is about "impact on the public portion of the criteria for RRHoF", not about actual music value or "So-n-so did this before those guys". This has nothing to do with songwriting or technical musician skills.....the music/talent opinions are irrelevant in the discussion...

    Love them or hate them, KISS was way bigger than Alice Cooper and had a larger public impact. Period.
    Last edited by klothos; 02-16-2014 at 06:39 PM.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    If you go back through the thread, none of what you are posting is disputed.....My claim was always that KISS was never as popular as the Beatles, but - in the mid 1970s -- they were certainly a distant second place and no other band has come close since. They are the only other band besides The Beatles in which the non-musician/non-audiophile general public, regardless of ethinicity or music orientation, knew the names of all the members.

    Even Led Zeppelin was Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, John Gonzo, and the other guy to the masses.





    *sigh* Like a broken record in this thread: the topic is about popularity/public spotlight/mass-appeal, not about music value....Alice was big, but nowhere near as big as KISS was.....the music/talent opinions are irrelevant in the discussion

    Your wrong, Alice Cooper was the worlds biggest grossing act in 1973, bigger than the Sfones, Zep, The Who et al. Outside of the USA & Japan Kiss have never been a big drawer,they were big in their own back yard. I also dont think any rock critic would admit to saying Kiss ever recorded anything near as good as B$B, Killer, LITD or School's Out! Kiss will forever be known as a comic book band & their stage shows, not for even making one classic album or even an anthem. I give you School's Out!
    Last edited by Rufus; 02-16-2014 at 06:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    Love them or hate them, KISS was way bigger than Alice Cooper and had a larger public impact. Period.
    If there's any truth to that, it would only be because Alice Cooper didn't have a fanbase of 9 year-olds.

  8. #83
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Your wrong, Alice Cooper was the worlds biggest grossing act in 1973, bigger than the Sfones, Zep, The Who et al. Outside of the USA & Japan Kiss have never been a drawer. I dont think any rock critic would admit to saying Kiss ever recorded anything near as good as B$B, Killer, LITD or School's Out! Kiss will forever be known as a comic book band & their stage shows, not for even making one classic album or even an anthem. I give you School's Out!

    For one, I dont really care what critics say: those are just paid public opinions. You arent going to proove anything by an opinion, even a high-profile "critic". Thats great for 1973! KISS's first album didnt come out til Feb 1974

    For two:

    any rock critic would admit to saying Kiss ever recorded anything near as good as B$B, Killer, LITD or School's Out!
    What part of
    the topic is about popularity/public spotlight/mass-appeal, not about music value
    didn't you understand?


    The ONLY thing that I will give you as that it could just be a USA-thing

  9. #84
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    If there's any truth to that, it would only be because Alice Cooper didn't have a fanbase of 9 year-olds.
    yeah, he had a fanbase of 15-21 year old HS drop outs <Thumbs Up>

  10. #85
    Hey, i like Kiss but as another previous poster said, unless you were around in 73/74 you aint gonna appreciate just how massive Alice Cooper was on a global scale. My first exposure & awareness of Kiss was Destroyer & i liked it because they sounded like ALICE COOPER. After Love Gun they kinda faded away, in the UK & Europe anyway!

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    If there's any truth to that, it would only be because Alice Cooper didn't have a fanbase of 9 year-olds.
    Jim Henson I think begged to differ.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Your wrong, Alice Cooper was the worlds biggest grossing act in 1973, bigger than the Sfones, Zep, The Who et al. Outside of the USA & Japan Kiss have never been a big drawer,they were big in their own back yard. I also dont think any rock critic would admit to saying Kiss ever recorded anything near as good as B$B, Killer, LITD or School's Out! Kiss will forever be known as a comic book band & their stage shows, not for even making one classic album or even an anthem. I give you School's Out!
    I love Alice Cooper but even if you're correct that they were bigger than The Stones, Zep and The Who, it was for a very brief time. I agree that they existed on a higher artistic plain than Kiss, but let's not get carried away, here. After 1975, Alice Cooper-the band and the singer-were pretty much done as far as critical or commercial success were concerned. Almost all of Kiss' studio albums have gone gold in America and let's face it, you only need to make it in America to truly make it. And man, you're just plain wrong about Kiss not making at least one classic album. Kiss' "Alive" and "Destroyer" are both pretty well regarded, even by stuffy music critics. Your entitled to your opinion of course, but if you want to talk about facts, it ain't Kiss that's going to be opening for Motley Crue this summer and it ain't Kiss that issued a slew of forgotten records from 1976 to the present...unless of course you want to count The Coop's conversion to hair metal in the late 80s which was actually fairly popular.

  13. #88
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    Kiss is more popular than Jesus!
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Jim Henson I think begged to differ.
    A thread can't be all bad if it inspires me to look up a particular episode of the Muppet Show on YouTube.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Hey, i like Kiss but as another previous poster said, unless you were around in 73/74 you aint gonna appreciate just how massive Alice Cooper was on a global scale. My first exposure & awareness of Kiss was Destroyer & i liked it because they sounded like ALICE COOPER. After Love Gun they kinda faded away, in the UK & Europe anyway!
    I was around in 73/74 and liked AC (especially Killer; "Under My Wheels" was fantastic to me and still is). But Kiss had some great early stuff, especially on the first two albums (Parasite, Duece, Hotter Than Hell, etc). If you just became aware of the band around Destroyer, then I have to wonder where you were (maybe not American, but Kiss Alive [released before Destroyer] was popular in the UK as well, reaching #13). The 'Alive' album was massive. Hard to believe you couldn't have been aware of that. And the third album spawned "I Wanna Rock n' Roll All Night," which I remember being a pretty ubiquitous hit. Not my favorite tune, but you mentioned earlier that they had no classic anthems. That's a pretty classic, well-known anthem (again, doesn't float my boat, but it's probably better known than Schools Out For Summer; it's chorus has become a cliché - "I wanna rock 'n roll all night, and party every day"... ughh...). And Kiss were big outside the U.S., even after Love Gun (you mentioned that they were big in their own back yard and that was about it). After Love Gun, they went to #2 in the UK with Dynasty, #3 with Unmasked in the UK, #11 with The Elder in the UK, top 40 with their next three albums in the UK (not great, but nothing to shake a stick at either), #5 with Revenge from '92 in the UK, #4 in the UK with Kiss Unplugged, #1 (!!!) with Psycho Circus in the UK in '98, and #7 with Monster in the UK in '12. There were other European success (Germany, Norway, etc) after Love Gun.

    I liked this band with their first two albums because they weren't real well known yet so they just seemed like a weird cult rock band (great rock tunes, weird stage makeup), then the explosion happened around '75/'76/'77 (all the kids had the lunchboxes, the band were on TV every other night, they sort of became a cartoon-like joke, mini-Beatlemania, etc... quite nauseating), and now... well, I have a sort of grudging respect for them, even though I've heard some latter day music that was pretty bad. But the early tunes do rock and are quite hooky/catchy, and their tenacity and longevity is something rare. They at least consider themselves legitimate (unlike a guy like George Michael from Wham, who during his heyday actually told an interviewer that he was just in the business to jet around the world and get a good suntan... Kiss at least thought they were making good music (even if I didn't like most of it) and did it for the music's sake. Didn't they?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilcox660 View Post
    Were Alice, Bowie, or Lou named Gene, or Paul, or Peter or Ace? I don't think so. Were Alice, Bowie, or Lou called KISS? I don't think so. Only then does it count!
    Huh? What are you talking about? People on this thread were accusing Kiss of ripping off Alice Cooper, David Bowie, and Lou Reed. I say that they did not. If you say that Kiss ripped off all those people, then you might as well say that Peter Gabriel did too.

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Huh? What are you talking about? People on this thread were accusing Kiss of ripping off Alice Cooper, David Bowie, and Lou Reed. I say that they did not. If you say that Kiss ripped off all those people, then you might as well say that Peter Gabriel did too.
    PG was probably ripping off Arthur Brown if he was 'ripping off' anyone (I prefer "influenced by..." but, you know)

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Huh? What are you talking about? People on this thread were accusing Kiss of ripping off Alice Cooper, David Bowie, and Lou Reed. I say that they did not. If you say that Kiss ripped off all those people, then you might as well say that Peter Gabriel did too.
    If we're gonna accuse Kiss of ripping of anyone, let's get the names right. They ripped off The Who, The Move, and Slade. Paul even admitted the intro to Love Her All I Can could even be thought of, depending on your point of view, as a rip off of I Can't Explain (of course, Nazz had already ripped off I Can't Explain with the Open My Eyes intro...maybe Kiss were ripping off Nazz ripping off The Who?).

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    If we're gonna accuse Kiss of ripping of anyone, let's get the names right. They ripped off The Who, The Move, and Slade. Paul even admitted the intro to Love Her All I Can could even be thought of, depending on your point of view, as a rip off of I Can't Explain (of course, Nazz had already ripped off I Can't Explain with the Open My Eyes intro...maybe Kiss were ripping off Nazz ripping off The Who?).
    Stop quoting me. I didn't say that Kiss were ripping off anyone. It was Banquo in post # 46.

  20. #95
    I believe KISS to be the most popular rock and roll American band with the least amount of talent ever.

    Alice Cooper was surprisingly huge back in the day before KISS and even if most older Americans thought he was the devil and the worst thing for their kids, they probably knew something of him. He was on primetime and even had a special if I remember. Friends of the family had a kid in high school who offed himself and they, even at my young age I knew it was a "sin" to blame music or a performer of that music on some troubled-kid killing himself, claimed he died accidentally ( how could they even live that lie- hell, it even got back to me as a small kid) rehearsing for the school talent show imitating Alice Cooper.

    My brother right after me was sucked into KISS from the very beginning ( you want to see a good clip of KISS starting out and Gene on t.v. for the first time, look for Gene on the Mike Douglas show. "under all that make-up, your just a good Jewish boy ( or something to that effect). KISS was his favorite band ( I had better taste, I thought they were terribly over-rated in their playing and musician-ship in general-just a poor bar band based on the music alone but after all that drug-trippin hippy-stuff that some folks moved on from or when the next generation came up, I can see how they caught fire. My brother already had several of their albums when we moved to Japan. KISS was simply HUGE over there and there was several Japanese only stuff my brother picked up. Guitarist John 5 said in an interview that he sold his, even at that time, very large and expensive collection of KISS posters for his first expensive guitar. Anyhow, I couldn't believe all the merchandise, cartoon show and movie that KISS came out with (Knights in Satan's service got very little flack and made it huge where Blue Oyster Cult was deemed slightly satanic and suffered in popularity which is beyond me).

    Thankfully, that same brother got me into Heavy Metal by introducing me to the Scorpions which I will be for ever grateful. So sometime in the 80's my best buddy's older brother asked if I wanted a free ticket for a KISS show. These two brothers had a really warped ( she questioned why her son liked me in the first place and surprisingly I was allowed in the house and years later, she admitted I was the most sensible and intelligent person she knew and could I straighten out her son LOL) very religious, superstitious mother who thought everything, esp. rock music was from Lucifer himself ( yet she watched many tel-evangilists with crazy-looking wive's with purple hair who seemed like the only reason they wanted to be on t.v. was to sing). I remember how she burned my buddy's older brother's Outlaws shirts. Ridiculous! So I go to the show. The costumes and effects are entertaining. Gene messing with a accompanying mom near me with his tongue got old ( as did Dee Snyder going after Dad's at his show). The music and musicianship were as lame/poor as I remembered from my brothers records ( before real headphones). Sadly,( oh, and I forgot, I did catch Paul's ( who I did actually get my face painted like his for Halloween in jr. high in Japan) guitar pick-who incidentally really sucks as a singer- which I gave to my over-joyed brother later. So back to the sadly part and to conclude; During the concert, this guy ( me) who wasn't a fan and wasn't impresses, SADLY, knew every word to every song. LOL Thanks, bro. ;-)

  21. #96

  22. #97
    The thing is any artist would run a mile before admitting they where influenced by KIZZ! On the contrary a generation of bands happily cite Alice Cooper.

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    The thing is any artist would run a mile before admitting they where influenced by KIZZ! On the contrary a generation of bands happily cite Alice Cooper.
    You do acknowledge you were wrong about their lack of popularity in the UK after Love Gun, though? (And I have heard a lot of people admit to a love of Kiss in recent years... like prog, the stigma is kind of gone now and it's okay to admit you like it)

  24. #99
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    The thing is any artist would run a mile before admitting they where influenced by KIZZ! On the contrary a generation of bands happily cite Alice Cooper.
    Now it is 100% evident that you really do not know what you are talking about.

    Are you baiting/trolling with this statement so that someone posts a list that cites the many artists who were influenced by KISS...so you can then mock those artists?

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Now it is 100% evident that you really do not know what you are talking about.

    Are you baiting/trolling with this statement so that someone posts a list that cites the many artists who were influenced by KISS...so you can then mock those artists?
    That does seem to be the next step... (I just checked, btw... Those lists exist, and there are *tons* of famous Kiss fans)

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