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Thread: Paul Stanley on R&R Hall Of Fame - Not An Honor

  1. #51
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Well, you'll get no argument from me. KISS certainly did corner the market on hard-rock lunchboxes. Man, they were dangerous!!!
    Good one!

    Dude, Im not arguing with you - Im not even a KISS fan, per se, and I dont think anyone is claiming that they were the first to do anything. But they were the ones in that era that put it out there in everyone's face: they were really doing something different on a mass public spotlight level. Audophiles and music historians may have clues to who did what first, but the rest of the general public will remember KISS for it.

    and Im thankful that when GG Allen decided that deficating onstage was something inspirational and new, that stayed in the underground

  2. #52
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    laughing at Banquo. Fire breathing? Are you kidding? Fire breathing? He sounds like Jim Mora...

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    What have you got against Cleveland? The actual reason it's in Cleveland is there was a big campaign here at the time, which ranged from petitions to various famous rock musicians giving "testimonies", as it were, about how Cleveland is the "home of rock n roll" (Huey Lewis even saying Heart Of Rock N Roll is about Cleveland) and some guy named Eric Carman (yeah, I know who he is, but he hardly strikes me as the most relevant "rock" musician) recording a song apparently confirming the point.
    Don't forget Cleveland Rocks by Ian Hunter, written about his love for that city.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Paul has admitted he originally wrote Hard Luck Woman for Rod The Mod, but the band ended up recording because Neil Bogart wanted "another ballad sung by the drummer" because of the success of Beth.
    I thought that Peter sang lead because he had a Rod Stewart-type voice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Realy? After all the shit that Alice Cooper, Lou Reed and Bowie did when KISS were still learning their instruments? Gimme a fucking break. Fire breathing? LOL!
    Did Alice, Bowie, or Lou spit fire and blood. Also, did they wear costumes making them look like superheroes? I don't think so.

  4. #54
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    There are some on here who say that they don't care about lyrics, so long as the music is good.

    Personally, I couldn't care less what kind of "costume" an artist wears on stage, so long as the music, lyrics, and performance is good.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    There are some on here who say that they don't care about lyrics, so long as the music is good.

    Personally, I couldn't care less what kind of "costume" an artist wears on stage, so long as the music, lyrics, and performance is good.
    The costumes are what make Kiss stand out. Seeing those CD covers that look like comic books covers and movie posters made me want to buy Kiss CDs. To me, it's all part of the Kiss package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Did Alice, Bowie, or Lou spit fire and blood. Also, did they wear costumes making them look like superheroes? I don't think so.
    Nah. They didn't push the envelope that far.
    All they did was to simulate execution by rope and guillotine, male to male fellatio, and shooting heroin onstage.

  7. #57
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Saying Cleveland is the home of rock n roll is like saying Wigan is the home of cuisine.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Saying Cleveland is the home of rock n roll is like saying Wigan is the home of cuisine.
    England is the home of prog.

  9. #59
    Connoisseur of stuff. Obscured's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    There are some on here who say that they don't care about lyrics, so long as the music is good.

    Personally, I couldn't care less what kind of "costume" an artist wears on stage, so long as the music, lyrics, and performance is good.
    Agreed.
    "Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
    "I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
    "I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973

  10. #60
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Nah. They didn't push the envelope that far.
    Yes, they did... Maybe not by today's standards, but by standards back then? Oh, hell yeah they did

    Im not going to debate perception with you - thats like debating opinions - but Im willing to make a wager (if I was a betting man) that most gen public persons would agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    All they did was to simulate execution by rope and guillotine, male to male fellatio, and shooting heroin onstage.
    Now, you're just trollin'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
    Agreed.
    Well, Genesis did get notice by the British musical press because of Pete's costumes. Seeing old video footage on the Genesis episode of Behind The Music of Pete in costume made me a fan of this band. In both cases, killer songs kept me listening to their music.

  12. #62
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    The costumes are what make Kiss stand out. Seeing those CD covers that look like comic books covers and movie posters made me want to buy Kiss CDs. To me, it's all part of the Kiss package.
    Pretty much nails why I never liked them.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    Yes, they did... Maybe not by today's standards, but by standards back then? Oh, hell yeah they did

    Im not going to debate perception with you - thats like debating opinions - but Im willing to make a wager (if I was a betting man) that most gen public persons would agree



    Now, you're just trollin'
    Don't know about you dude, but I was there back then, and I know what the standards were and what they are now. KISS was a fun rock and roll band, but comparing them to Alice Cooper is like comparing Pat Boone to Little Richard.

  14. #64
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Don't know about you dude, but I was there back then, and I know what the standards were and what they are now. KISS was a fun rock and roll band, but comparing them to Alice Cooper is like comparing Pat Boone to Little Richard.
    I was there too ( prolly younger than you) and it was just oppositte for me....Maybe its geography; maybe its demographics; maybe its both - but, in my area of Florida, Alice (although cool) was a gnat compared to the KISS jauggernaut

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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    I was there too ( prolly younger than you) and it was just oppositte for me....Maybe its geography; may be its demographics; maybe its both - but, in my area of Florida, Alice was a gnat compared to the KISS jauggernaut
    Maybe it's because you're younger than me, or maybe it's geography.

  16. #66
    So, I guess the city with the most songs about them "rocking" makes it the home of rock and roll.

    Are there any songs about Rockport? Seems like they would be a good candidate.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  17. #67
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Always wondered why "WKRP In Cincinnati" instead of Cleveland.

  18. #68
    Connoisseur of stuff. Obscured's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Well, you'll get no argument from me. KISS certainly did corner the market on hard-rock lunchboxes. Man, they were dangerous!!!
    Yep, no one played the merchandising game better than KISS. Oh, wait-


    And no, I'm not trying to compare the two bands musically. Just stating a fact.
    "Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
    "I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
    "I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
    And no, I'm not trying to compare the two bands musically. Just stating a fact.
    And the rest of the fact is that The Beatles had no control over, and nothing to do with, all the merchandising. It was not part of their schtick.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  20. #70
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
    Yep, no one played the merchandising game better than KISS. Oh, wait-


    And no, I'm not trying to compare the two bands musically. Just stating a fact.
    C'mon… since The Beatles were dumb to not make money off of their merchandise, that makes them 'better', to some.


  21. #71
    Connoisseur of stuff. Obscured's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    C'mon… since The Beatles were dumb to not make money off of their merchandise, that makes them 'better', to some.

    I think them lads made out ok.
    "Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
    "I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
    "I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    C'mon… since The Beatles were dumb to not make money off of their merchandise, that makes them 'better', to some.

    Wow, it's actually dumb to try to retain some integrity with their work? That's news to me. They had been contacted quite often about selling their songs for commercial use and always maintained they would never do that. Of course, once they lost the rights to their own music...

    "The Beatles position is that they don't sing jingles to peddle sneakers, beer, pantyhose or anything else. Their position is that they wrote and recorded these songs as artists and not as pitchmen for any product." -Apple's attorney's statement July 18, 1987

    "If it's allowed to happen, every Beatles song ever recorded is going to be advertising women's underwear and sausages. We've got to put a stop to it in order to set a precedent. Otherwise it's going to be a free-for-all. It's one thing you're dead, but we're still around! They don't have any respect for the fact that we wrote and recorded those songs, and it was our lives." -George Harrison November 1987

    "But the most difficult question is whether you should use songs for commercials. I haven't made up my mind. Generally, I don't like it, particularly with the Beatles stuff. When twenty years have passed maybe we'll move into the realm where it's okay to do it." Paul McCartney February 1988
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  23. #73
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Wow, it's actually dumb to try to retain some integrity with their work? That's news to me. They had been contacted quite often about selling their songs for commercial use and always maintained they would never do that. Of course, once they lost the rights to their own music...
    I was not speaking of songs used for commercial use. I spoke directly about merchandise.

    Did the Beatles make money off of their merchandise? I was going by this:

    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    And the rest of the fact is that The Beatles had no control over, and nothing to do with, all the merchandising. It was not part of their schtick.
    That is why I stated they were dumb to let others control the merch instead of themselves.

    KISS has had total control of their merch from the start.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    RnRHoF never seemed to me an institution (even THAT is too strong a word) worthy of any kind of credibilty (Cleveland?? Really,,, )
    Actually I visited Cleveland last year to meet up with a friend. First time there, and I have to say that all preconceptions were pretty much dismissed. While there are still some very heavily hit parts of town that I'd not want to enter, the city overall seems to be turning from a blue collar town into a brain trust, with their new Heart Institute drawing a lot of attention. Beyond the HoF, which was just plain fun to visit, there are two tremendous art galleries, some truly great restaurants (one with the best burger I've ever had in my life; not haute cuisine, but who cares...and there's plenty of that to be found if you want it).

    Plus musically, there' say underground soul scene there to which my friend is trying to bring attention, if he can find a suitable publisher....

    So, while I know Cleveland has generally had a bad rap, I'd go there now before you dismiss it. It' same town in transition, and in the best possible way.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Don't know about you dude, but I was there back then, and I know what the standards were and what they are now. KISS was a fun rock and roll band, but comparing them to Alice Cooper is like comparing Pat Boone to Little Richard.
    Korrekt, no comparison!

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