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Thread: Paul Stanley on R&R Hall Of Fame - Not An Honor

  1. #26
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    I know Chris Squire has mentioned in interviews that he would like all 18 Yes members to be inducted, but he clearly has no say. That will be an interesting one - surely the Hall will think of the Howe/Squire/White/Wakeman/Anderson "classic" lineup - but how do you leave out Bruford? Using the Heart example, does Rabin get left out? And if you use the Metallica example - do Downes & Davison get in?
    It's whatever is a) most fashionable at the moment, and b) creates the most prestige and good PR for the R&RHOF. Photos and video are going to be transmitted around the world and the Hall wants the people on stage (and perhaps performing) to not embarrass them. That's one reason I'm not sure Yes will ever get in. Just the idea of Jon Anderson in front of a microphone giving an acceptance speech must give Jan Wenner nightmares.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  2. #27
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    F You Paul Stanley! Kiss doesn't deserve to lick the shoes of The Grateful Dead. Did Kiss EVER move away from what other bands were doing? That's BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    F You Paul Stanley! Kiss doesn't deserve to lick the shoes of The Grateful Dead. Did Kiss EVER move away from what other bands were doing? That's BS.
    That's a little harsh, don't you think? Btw, what do you mean by "did Kiss move away from what other bands were doing"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Merchandising over music. I guess it's fitting that Kiss should get in based on a fan write-in campaign. It completes the irrelevancy of the action.
    Kiss didn't get in based on a fan write-in campaign? You're confusing them with Yes.

  5. #30
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    That's a little harsh, don't you think? Btw, what do you mean by "did Kiss move away from what other bands were doing"?
    Stanley says Kiss "ignor[ed their] peers and [went their] own way," but I never felt their was anything unique about them aside from their costumes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Stanley says Kiss "ignor[ed their] peers and [went their] own way," but I never felt their was anything unique about them aside from their costumes.
    If you have actually listened to Kiss, you would hear a band that sounds like no other band. I think that statement means that Kiss has always done what the band wants(or want Gene and Paul want), and has never done anything to please their record company or some manager. Sure Kiss did do disco and grunge, but material done in that style still sounded like Kiss.

  7. #32
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    KISS always did whatever they thought would sell. Product first, art second. It's all about the Brand.
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  8. #33
    Connoisseur of stuff. Obscured's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    Geez, today Im sounding like a KISS groupie but, in reality, with the impact that they had - they should have been one of the FIRST bands in the RRHoF.
    Yep. Saw Kiss for the first time in December of '77 at MSG, "Love Gun" tour. It was everything Rock & Roll was supposed to be about. Loud, guitar driven tunes played with ferocity and abandon.
    Quite the spectacle. They really pushed all the limits; fire breathing, blood spitting antics, etc. And the make-up and outrageous outfits? Especially the boots!!?? Took the pioneers of glam to another level. Sold out the Garden on multiple nights too. Saw crying fans willing to do anything to get a ticket outside on 7th avenue. No reason in the world it should have taken this long for them to get in the Hall. What a joke, really. That same year I also caught Zep, Floyd, Yes, ELP and Queen at the Garden. All of 'em (meaning now Yes & ELP) would be in the hall if it wasn't a sham. Paul Stanley's view of things was spot on. Fripp said something to the effect of "Sometimes it's better not to get invited to the party."
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  9. #34
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    I think the only reason Paul would want to show up is to rub elbows with the other musicians, because he respects the "art" (art=theatricality/fun) of rock and roll, but not the attempt to categorize it.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  10. #35
    Stanley's comments came off way better than his band who musically are a tiny dingleberry in the crack of twentieth century music.

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    I think they deserve it, if only for one reason: They probably inspired more kids to pick up a guitar than any band save the Beatles. That should be enough.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    I think they deserve it, if only for one reason: They probably inspired more kids to pick up a guitar than any band save the Beatles. That should be enough.
    +1

    Indeed.

    Speaking for myself, KISS are the reason that I picked up the guitar, even though the Beatles were my first love.

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    No problem at all with Kiss being there as such- I have some of their CDs and like them, was playing 'Greatest Hits' yesterday!- but find the disregard for chronology shown by the R&RHOF baffling in the extreme. I don't understand why Kiss and indeed Rush are there before bands who came earlier, were popular then, and are still popular now (The Moody Blues, Yes, King Crimson, Deep Purple).

    I don't think it's right for some here to deny the influence of Kiss, even if you feel that influence was negative. It falls under the same category of taste arbitration as certain critics of prog have shown in the past- the 'my taste is better than yours' school of thought, when at the end of the day an influence is an influence. It's not their music I have a problem with here.
    Last edited by JJ88; 02-15-2014 at 09:15 AM.

  14. #39
    There should be a Rock and Roll Hall of Schtick.
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  15. #40
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    There should also be a Rock N Roll Hall of Pompous Asses Who Take Themselves and Their Music Waaaaay Too Seriously



  16. #41
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I don't think it's right for some here to deny the influence of Kiss, even if you feel that influence was negative. It falls under the same category of taste arbitration as certain critics of prog have shown in the past- the 'my taste is better than yours' school of thought, when at the end of the day an influence is an influence. It's not their music I have a problem with here.
    Well said. Few will acknowledge this.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    RnRHoF never seemed to me an institution (even THAT is too strong a word) worthy of any kind of credibilty (Cleveland?? Really,,, )
    What have you got against Cleveland? The actual reason it's in Cleveland is there was a big campaign here at the time, which ranged from petitions to various famous rock musicians giving "testimonies", as it were, about how Cleveland is the "home of rock n roll" (Huey Lewis even saying Heart Of Rock N Roll is about Cleveland) and some guy named Eric Carman (yeah, I know who he is, but he hardly strikes me as the most relevant "rock" musician) recording a song apparently confirming the point. It's a little bit like how certain cities end up getting NFL franchises or whatever because the city's government, people, etc campaign for it.

    The real world reasons for the Hall Of Fame being here is that a DJ named Alan Freed was working in Cleveland when he theoretically came up with the idea of calling this new music "rock n roll" and he promoted the first concert that was billed as a "rock n roll review" (or whatever words would have been used back then) here. This was all before Freed he moved to NYC, became even more famous, hosted an American Bandstand knock off that got pulled off the air after only a few weeks (because the camera caught an interracial couple dancing for a few seconds at the end of one show), and then finally fell from disgrace when the whole payola scandal broke.

    For what it's worth, I agree with just about everything that Paul said, apart from the comment about the Red Hot Chilli Peppers. I'm not sure I understand what he means when he says their early albums "didn't amount to much". Maybe not in terms of record sales, but those were the best records they made, if you asked me. And there wouldn't have been a Red Hot Chilli Peppers without Hillel Slovak, so yeah, I think he absolutely should be inducted. And if you want to kvetch about too many people being inducted with a given band, Mr. Eisen, I suggest you look to Parliament/Funkadelic, who hold the present record, which is something like 15 individuals.

    As far as whatever influence the inductees have over who gets inducted, I recall reading once that at least a couple of the guys from the "middle" era of Fleetwood Mac, ie not the original lineup but not the Lindsay Buckingham lineup, who were convinced that Mick Fleetwood pulled strings to keep them from being inducted. I think it was Bob Welch who reportedly aired such comments in interviews.

  18. #43
    Oh, and I agree that there's no way Kiss "ignored" what their peers were doing. I remember someone saying that they liked Kiss a lot better when they were called Slade. And I also remember it being mentioned in one book that the reason they they occasionally doubled the electric rhythm guitars with acoustics (like on C'mon And Love Me) was from listening to to Bachman-Turner Overdrive.

    Paul has admitted he originally wrote Hard Luck Woman for Rod The Mod, but the band ended up recording because Neil Bogart wanted "another ballad sung by the drummer" because of the success of Beth.

    And of course, then there's I Was Made For Loving You. You're gonna seriously tell me Paul and that Desmond Child guy weren't thinking, "Gee we should write a disco song"? Actually, don't bother, Paul's already admitted he intended it to be a disco song, though I think he's given a couple different reasons for it (either "It'll be easier to get airplay with this" or "I wanted to prove anybody could write this stuff in their sleep", depending on which specific interview you're reading).

    And it's pretty obvious Unmasked was a deliberate attempt to make their music more "palatable" or whatever to the general public.

    However, I still can't account for Music From The Elder. Allegedly they were trying to "show the critics just how smart Kiss could be", but they certainly couldn't have been thinking of professional record critics, because other than Tommy and Quadrophenia, those guys usually don't like concept albums. And they couldn't have been thinking that in 1981, a concept album would be huge with the record buying public. I mean, I absolutely agree with Paul when he asked to rate Music From The Elder on a scale from 1 to 10, and he said "I give it a great big question mark". I mean, there's good songs on that album, actually most of it is pretty good (other than Mr. Blackwell), but it's absolutely one great big non sequiter.

  19. #44
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I recall reading once that at least a couple of the guys from the "middle" era of Fleetwood Mac, ie not the original lineup but not the Lindsay Buckingham lineup, who were convinced that Mick Fleetwood pulled strings to keep them from being inducted. I think it was Bob Welch who reportedly aired such comments in interviews.
    Its also very possible thats just sour grapes by Welch. Im not saying he doesn't deserve to be in, but Im not convinced Mick Fleetwood would do that to him.

    My personal take on it is that any band member that has a recorded performance and that performance was released commercially to the public with the said act inducted should be included, as they make up that group's public history $.02

  20. #45
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    My personal take on it is that any band member that has a recorded performance and that performance was released commercially to the public with the said act inducted should be included, as they make up that group's public history $.02
    Totally agree. Seems like a rather simple idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
    They really pushed all the limits; fire breathing, blood spitting antics, etc.
    Realy? After all the shit that Alice Cooper, Lou Reed and Bowie did when KISS were still learning their instruments? Gimme a fucking break. Fire breathing? LOL!

  22. #47
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Realy? After all the shit that Alice Cooper, Lou Reed and Bowie did when KISS were still learning their instruments? Gimme a fucking break. Fire breathing? LOL!
    I'll keep that in mind when trying to find a 1970s hey-day Alice Cooper, Lou Reed, or Bowie lunchbox on eBay (not a 1990s+ memorabilia merch)

  23. #48
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Realy? After all the shit that Alice Cooper, Lou Reed and Bowie did when KISS were still learning their instruments? Gimme a fucking break. Fire breathing? LOL!
    Must admit that when I want this stuff I reach for Alice. Executed with a lot more style for me.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    I'll keep that in mind when trying to find a 1970s hey-day Alice Cooper, Lou Reed, or Bowie lunchbox on eBay.
    Well, you'll get no argument from me. KISS certainly did corner the market on hard-rock lunchboxes. Man, they were dangerous!!!

  25. #50
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    This is a part of the R&R HoF I just don't get. I too thought it was absurd that Trujillo got inducted, when Bruce Johnston, Ricky Fataar & Blondie Chaplin were left out of the Beach Boys induction. Same with Heart, leaving out the bassist and drummer from their '80s years when Heart became huge. It seems to be completely arbitrary who some committee chooses to represent the band.

    I know Chris Squire has mentioned in interviews that he would like all 18 Yes members to be inducted, but he clearly has no say. That will be an interesting one - surely the Hall will think of the Howe/Squire/White/Wakeman/Anderson "classic" lineup - but how do you leave out Bruford? Using the Heart example, does Rabin get left out? And if you use the Metallica example - do Downes & Davison get in? I would guess that Moraz, Horn, Brislin, Khoroshev, O Wakeman, and David would be automatically left out because of their short time with the band, but what of Kaye, Banks or Sherwood? And what's wrong with inducting all of them? Can they not afford the extra dinners for these guys at the ceremony? Too much to pay for extra engraving on the plaque?

    the RRHoF rules and criteria are random. You have some bands that have sold millions of albums not in there, some bands that were ground breaking not in there, some bands that had record breaking attendances not in there, while you have bands in there who are not even rock and roll. That's because the ONLY thing that matters is if Jan Wenner and his little butt buddies have you in their collections and gave you five stars. basically, it is like holding a hall of fame to, say, science fiction authors and only including whatever is on your book shelf.
    Last edited by Rune Blackwings; 02-15-2014 at 05:43 PM. Reason: bain dramage
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