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Thread: Did 'classic' Yes have another masterpiece left in them?

  1. #26
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    It's hard to say. I think that 'Tormato' was their weakest album up to that point though, and the demos I've heard from that late 70s period are also not great IMHO.

    I don't think FFH was 'great', though for some that opinion is seemingly a crime. I think it was good, but nearly three years on it's not in much rotation for me. I like it more than 'Talk', 'Union' and 'Open Your Eyes'...but not as much as the Keys albums (which weren't 'great' either but have more musical substance for me), 'The Ladder' or 'Magnification'. And I think, although I've never gotten into it beyond the first three songs, 'Talk' is probably the better album from an objective standpoint.

    I think the difference between 'Mind Drive' not getting criticised as opposed to FFH is that 'Mind Drive' wasn't really a fully developed song (although I was indeed disappointed upon realising that the best thing on those albums was an old idea). Some of the FFH album was.

  2. #27
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    I don't think Yes has that youthful vigor anymore to create a new masterpiece. I hate to get sucked into the age-ist thing, but I really do think they are past their prime in that respect. They were young, they were hungry and they had a major label that seemed willing to let them go as far as their creativity could take them. Those days are long behind them. The best Yes can do at this point is please their hardcore fan base and that seems to be working for them.

    I thought FFH was a good record and a few albums prior to that were good too. But great? Not just no, but *hell* no.

  3. #28
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Are you saying that Fly From Here wasn't great.
    I really enjoyed Fly From Here, and I consider myself a supporter of the album, but Fragile or Close to the Edge it isn't, not nearly.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

  4. #29
    I was unmoved by FFH. Granted, I haven't heard it since it first came out, but I suspect my opinion won't change if I heard it again.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by notallwhowander View Post
    IMO, the answer is no. That they never managed it since, IMO, rather proves the point. I like some stuff beyond CttE, but most of the output after doesn't come close. Relayer sounded great in part because Moraz was there instead of Rick, and that was pretty much the last gasp of prog greatness (again, IMO). Drama rallies on new blood too, but still... Whatever happened, happened, and it wasn't to be repeated. They have had several chances since, and none of it touches that classic period.
    Are you dismissing GFtO and Awaken? I quite thought In the Presence of reached that level although the album might have missed the mark.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by notallwhowander View Post
    I really enjoyed Fly From Here, and I consider myself a supporter of the album, but Fragile or Close to the Edge it isn't, not nearly.
    Of course it's not. Only Fragile is Fragile and CTTE is what it is. Btw, I was addressing Poisoned Youth.

  7. #32
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jondon4 View Post
    Are you dismissing GFtO and Awaken? I quite thought In the Presence of reached that level although the album might have missed the mark.
    I'm not dismissing it, I'm just saying for me their output is patchy, and my enjoyment qualified. I never enjoyed "Awaken" as much as when I saw it live in 2003 when Rick came back for a spell (the same goes for "The Revealing Science of God"). However, the studio tracks don't always do it for me, though sometimes they do. I don't want to impose an objective value based on something so subjective as my mercurial experience, but again, it was no "Close to the Edge." I keep coming back to CttE, because I think it and Fragile are unqualified masterpieces. I'll let The Yes Album and Relayer get in there too, but that's as far as I'll go. There are other great albums, and other great tracks, but those are some lofty damn peaks.
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  8. #33
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    It's about as likely as a 70s prog fans fitting into their small sized Genesis shirts.
    Last edited by mozo-pg; 02-09-2014 at 09:02 PM.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by notallwhowander View Post
    I'm not dismissing it, I'm just saying for me their output is patchy, and my enjoyment qualified. I never enjoyed "Awaken" as much as when I saw it live in 2003 when Rick came back for a spell (the same goes for "The Revealing Science of God"). However, the studio tracks don't always do it for me, though sometimes they do. I don't want to impose an objective value based on something so subjective as my mercurial experience, but again, it was no "Close to the Edge." I keep coming back to CttE, because I think it and Fragile are unqualified masterpieces. I'll let The Yes Album and Relayer get in there too, but that's as far as I'll go. There are other great albums, and other great tracks, but those are some lofty damn peaks.
    I think Bruford captured it well as to why he left Yes. (Paraphrasing) "Close To The Edge was the pinnacle, an album of perfect form (and perfect form was everything). I loved the album, hated making it and was immediately determined never to do that again. IOW, we would never be able to surpass that effort, so why bother? There are more interesting things to do." And with the Crim lineup of Broof, Fripp, Wetton, Cross and (for a while) Muir, he was right. It is interesting that Fripp broke up that lineup after THEIR pinnacle, Red.

    Relayer was a tremendous album, but with Howe's guitar sound and Moraz's jazzier approach, it didn;t really sound like Yes to me. Their last gasp at greatness was Awaken, at least to my years, just as Karn Evil 9 was for ELP. Once you reach the summit, where do you go?

  10. #35
    The Paris Sessions material was weak. The well was dry. Classic Yes was an "ex-parrot" at that point. They needed to do exactly what they did--move on and do other things with other people. Their reunion in the mid '90s did produce some decent material, but it's obvious they weren't capable of working together in 1979-80.

  11. #36
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    I almost think they tried, and came closest to achieving this with 'Mind Drive'. I kind of think if they could top that, they would. Perhaps its about drive, and energy, and the excitement of putting what is in ones heart to vinyl/cd, and once they've done this and had their say, they might not have to say it anymore. Which is unfortunate. I'd like it if they found different things to say, (so to speak) that are just as creative and heartfelt and brilliant, but maybe the drive and energy that would lead to that actually does diminish with age.

  12. #37
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who feels that Tormato is better than their debut? It's close but imo Tormato is just a little bit better.
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Am I the only one who feels that Tormato is better than their debut? It's close but imo Tormato is just a little bit better.
    That's an interesting comparison... I think the debut is a better-realized effort, but the bits of Tormato that work win on ambition. I have to admit I tend to play Tormato more often than the debut.

  14. #39
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    I think their debut is way better than 'Tormato'. The debut you can still hear some of their influences, and the production is again not the greatest, but there's not a weak track on it IMHO. It's a debut that suffers from hindsight, rather than anything being wrong with the music. 'Beyond And Before' and 'Survival' I've always been very fond of.

    The last album they did that's close to a 5-star classic for me is 'Going For The One'. The production lets it down at times but the material was strong and still popular today. Hard to believe really how quickly they went 'off the boil' with 'Tormato' featuring the same line-up. The best albums after that are 'Drama' and '90125' IMHO, but the latter in particular, I view differently from classic Yes. After this, it's more great tracks than great albums, as far as I'm concerned...surprisingly 'The Ladder' is the album that works best for me, but I'm not fooling myself that it's near their 70s peak.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I think their debut is way better than 'Tormato'. The debut you can still hear some of their influences, and the production is again not the greatest, but there's not a weak track on it IMHO. It's a debut that suffers from hindsight, rather than anything being wrong with the music. 'Beyond And Before' and 'Survival' I've always been very fond of.

    The last album they did that's close to a 5-star classic for me is 'Going For The One'. The production lets it down at times but the material was strong and still popular today. Hard to believe really how quickly they went 'off the boil' with 'Tormato' featuring the same line-up. The best albums after that are 'Drama' and '90125' IMHO, but the latter in particular, I view differently from classic Yes. After this, it's more great tracks than great albums, as far as I'm concerned...surprisingly 'The Ladder' is the album that works best for me, but I'm not fooling myself that it's near their 70s peak.
    I believe the peak of all the great 1970s prog bands crested in the early 1970s and ended in the mid to late 1970s. U.K. was the last gasp of that period. After that, some bands became successful while others did not, but the successful ones changed their formula (Genesis, YesWest).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavgator View Post
    I'm not even sure that would be consensus as to what constitutes the "classic" lineup. For me, it is the Fragile/Close To The Edge period.
    Yeah, up through GFTO I would venture. Could they have done another epic as a band - probably not. Each member was also dealing with their solo ego's and projects at that point. I doubt that anything cohesive could have come out of more collaboration. I mean, the band changed a bit between Tales and Drama, and the industry was evolving away from prog - they were searching for an evolution for a while, not a collaboration on what worked before.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavgator View Post
    I'm not even sure that would be consensus as to what constitutes the "classic" lineup. For me, it is the Fragile/Close To The Edge period.
    Exactly. Wakeman left during TFTO and then rejoined for GFTO.

    The classic Yes lineup for me was the band that recorded the following masterpieces Fragile, CTTE, TFTO - end of list.

    Anything after that is a Mk III or IV or whatever it was by the time of Relayer without RW.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

    The classic Yes lineup for me was the band that recorded the following masterpieces Fragile, CTTE, TFTO - end of list.
    That's 2 different line-ups...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    No.

    Classically speaking, of course.

    For crying out load, these guys are an inch away from wearing diapers again. Can we stop pining for what might've been, and just be content with what we have already? Of course if they do, might I suggest the title of "Big Geriatrics" for their comeback album.
    That masterpiece album should have occured somewhere between GFtO and Drama. It didn't But I'm happy with what they gave us.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    That's 2 different line-ups...
    That was my contention as well. Alan White is an outstanding rock drummer, but that patented Yes "tight and light" sound changed with the hard-driving style of White. Even on Six Wives of Henry VIII , one can distinctly hear a different sound and foundation with each drummer, with Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn having that classic Yes tight, off beat sound, while Catherine Parr and particularly Anne of Cleves absolutely rocks out.

  21. #46
    Classic line-up must include Bruford.
    Can under no circumstances include White.
    The music was hot, but my baby was not.

  22. #47
    I cam accept two classic lineups, sort of classica majora and classica minora...

  23. #48
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    All the 70's bands have done their masterpiece some decades ago, i thought that King Crimson could be the exception, but i am still waiting... I don't think that bring up the old classic musicians would do much a difference, because the inspiration is gone.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    That's 2 different line-ups...

    Oh, I see, you want the drummers included in the line-up alongside the musicians ....... .....incoming.......duck & cover...

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Are you saying that Fly From Here wasn't great.
    Good - not great
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