Pat Metheny Unity Group - Kin (<-->) / Tour

[No Pride]

Even though I was listening for the first time I felt like I have heard this before. I'm not sure that's a compliment. It's the classic "Pat" sound, but honestly as great as it is in every aspect, it didn't really blow me away. I think this cat needs to totally reinvent himself - make an avant classical album or something. He's sounding "samey" and wee bit stale to my ears. His evolution seems to be confined within the walled fortress of his village - he needs to venture out into the country, get fucking naked, and REALLY let his hair down!

Certainly a stellar album in many ways, and if this was the only PM album I had ever heard, I would be blown away. But placing this album in the historical context has skewed my view a bit. Perhaps my tastes have changed drastically - who knows? I loved The Way Up but this seems familiar territory.

Boy does that echo my sentiments about PM! I hate to diss him; he's a fantastic guitar player and oft brilliant composer, BUT...
I don't know, maybe he's just made too many albums. It's not just him; many artists who are that prolific tend to sound "samey" after a while. Even with "The Way Up;" there's some very exciting passages that sounded fresh to me, but a good portion of it sounded a little too familiar. If you're in love with that sound and just can't get enough, more power to you, but I tend to burn out on any band/artist that rarely changes up their thing, no matter how good that thing may be. I'd like to hear this new one, but I doubt I'll get it. I have 9 Metheny albums and as much as I dig them, I feel like I have... well, enough.

Pat - STOP USING THAT SYNTH SOUND! You used that same sound when I was in Cub Scouts and had Superman underoos...no joke! Fire up a Les Paul plugged into a Marshall or Boogie for once!

Amen! I never liked that sound in the first place. But he sure does! It's his way of getting sustain without actually going the rock gear route. But the sound falls short of that route. IMO; there!

[Troopers For Sound]

After a few listens it's not quite doing it for me unfortunately. I loved the Unity Band album, but this kind of feels like that band has been smothered somewhat. Lots of bits that I did enjoy of course, including Pat's first amazing solo. But there was one track I actively disliked (Born) which is rare for me. And I LOVED genealogy...but it was over in 30 seconds or so

I'll keep listening though, and hopefully catch them live in London.

Matt.

[Dedatolo]

Pat - PLEASE DON'T STOP USING THAT SYNTH SOUND! It's basically the only thing I like of your sound....

[chalkpie]

Pat - PLEASE DON'T STOP USING THAT SYNTH SOUND! It's basically the only thing I like of your sound....

Haha! Nice.

[jkelman]

I dunno? I've only sampled the tunes, but a lot of 'em sound like recycled PMG material. If Metheny wants to go this route, why not just phone Lyle and Steve and do another PMG record? The first Unity Band record was more of a departure and something new, and makes more sense, imo. I'd go see them live, but I'll pass on the CD.

First, sampling won't tell you the whole story - though I am sure you know that. Yes, Pat absolutely references certain past elements, but isn't an artist the sum total of his/her experiences? In my review I reference the fact that Kin is, indeed, something of a confluence of his career to date, but he's still absolutely looking forward as well - which you'd hear, I am sure, if you did more than just sample.

While I've no firm substantiation, what I am hearing is that it's Lyle who does not want to embark on the extensive touring that's always a part of Metheny Group (or Metheny Unity Group now) projects, and I respect that. The road is not for everyone, and even traveling with good accommodations and all ultimately wears thin. Rodby continues to work with Pat as a co-producer, but it's equally clear that Metheny has been looking for something different, while still aiming to produce the kind of cinematic, epic writing he has done so much and so well with PMG.

I would seriously check out the record before judging on samples - or even one or two tunes. A lot of his core constituents did just that prior to its release, when a UK radio station premiered some material; their response was really negative, and most of them have flipped now that they have the full album in their hands.

Best,
John

[Yanks2014]

I may be seeing PM at the Keswick in March. This would be my 2nd show of his, the last being the Orchestriations tour back in 2010 at Zoellner in Bethlehem. So it would be my first time seeing him perform with a human band. I own none of his music, and I'm guessing this new album might not be the best place to start. Any suggestions? Asside from that show, I have heard some of his music and always liked what I heard, but really it's only a few songs worth.

[jkelman]

After a few listens it's not quite doing it for me unfortunately. I loved the Unity Band album, but this kind of feels like that band has been smothered somewhat. Lots of bits that I did enjoy of course, including Pat's first amazing solo. But there was one track I actively disliked (Born) which is rare for me. And I LOVED genealogy...but it was over in 30 seconds or so

I'll keep listening though, and hopefully catch them live in London.

Matt.

Curious why you disliked "Born." To me, it's not unlike "Spiritual" on Beyond the Missouri Sky, his duet record with Charlie Haden, and I sure loved that (which was written by Charlie's son, btw). It;s simple, but to my ears, profoundly deep and, indeed, spiritual. I think it's a great piece that helps break the record up a bit as well, in a very good way. So am curious what it is you don't like about it....
Tx!
John

[jkelman]

I may be seeing PM at the Keswick in March. This would be my 2nd show of his, the last being the Orchestriations tour back in 2010 at Zoellner in Bethlehem. So it would be my first time seeing him perform with a human band. I own none of his music, and I'm guessing this new album might not be the best place to start. Any suggestions? Asside from that show, I have heard some of his music and always liked what I heard, but really it's only a few songs worth.

Well, I think this is actually a great band to start with, as I think live they'll exceed the album.

A few Metheny albums I'd suggest:

Bright Size Life - his first, and a trio record with Jaco Pastorius that's more clearly a jazz record but already shows a great writer in the making
Pat Metheny Group
Offramp
Travels (one of my favorite live albums)
Still Life (Talking)
We Live Here (groove stuff; a lot of folks dislike it for that, but I love it for it!)
Imaginary Day (the opening track will nail you!)
The Way Up (PMG's magnum opus)
Question & Answer (more jazz-centric trio with Roy Haynes and Dave Holland)
As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls (duo record with Lyle Mays, plus guest percussionist Nana Vasoncelos)
Unity Band (where the new group started)
80/81 - twin-tenors with Dewey Reedman & Michael Brecker plus Charlie Haden and Jack DeJohnette. Classic.
Beyond the Missouri Sky - intimate duo record with Charlie Haden
Secret Story - an epic solo album, his most expansive, cinematic record to date, I think.

This outta keep you busy!
John

[JJ88]

I think for the 'prog' fan, 'As Falls Wichita...' and 'Secret Story' work well as a 'way in'. They did for me. The former has a side-long title track, heavy on atmosphere. The 2nd side has some lovely material on it too, 'It's For You' and 'September 13th' are great. 'Secret Story' was the first album of his I heard, it's a heavily orchestrated and lush record that I remember playing over and over when I got it.

The one album which made me get more seriously into his work was the eponymous Pat Metheny Group one. The track 'San Lorenzo' in particular is a really beautiful piece of music. Failing that, as noted, if you had to get just one try 'Travels' which is a double live album and contains versions of 'As Falls Wichita...' and 'San Lorenzo' on it. I always felt it was a shame that 'It's For You' wasn't on it, another of my favourites, as I saw a stunning live version of this some years ago from that period. But hard to fault it otherwise, and it contains a lot of 'new' material.

I really got into the more jazz-oriented stuff as well, as I was exploring that genre at the time. '80/81' has one long track I really love, 'Two Folk Songs'. And I like it when he really goes off-piste on a track like 'Offramp'.

[Troopers For Sound]

Re: Born

I listened again and I think it's generally the plodding feel of it and that main chord sequence...the three chord descending pattern, just feels a tad bland. Reminds me of Helpless by CSNY - which was never a favourite. So that doesn't help! Certainly the opening immediately calls to mind the Missouri Sky album, and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is one of my top Metheny tracks. But melodically and harmonically this track feels like anyone could have written it, IMO.

Although I DO like that octave doubling of the melody near the end. And count me in as a lover of the guitar synth Enjoying the title track in isolation from the rest...so I'm sure I'll get more out of the record over time.

Matt.

[nosebone]

Boy does that echo my sentiments about PM! I hate to diss him; he's a fantastic guitar player and oft brilliant composer, BUT...
I don't know, maybe he's just made too many albums. It's not just him; many artists who are that prolific tend to sound "samey" after a while. Even with "The Way Up;" there's some very exciting passages that sounded fresh to me, but a good portion of it sounded a little too familiar. If you're in love with that sound and just can't get enough, more power to you, but I tend to burn out on any band/artist that rarely changes up their thing, no matter how good that thing may be. I'd like to hear this new one, but I doubt I'll get it. I have 9 Metheny albums and as much as I dig them, I feel like I have... well, enough.


Amen! I never liked that sound in the first place. But he sure does! It's his way of getting sustain without actually going the rock gear route. But the sound falls short of that route. IMO; there!

I'm on the same train.

Pat is a monstrous talent , but I OD on his sound a long time ago.

Actually, the Les Paul/Marshall idea is a pretty great idea for Pat.

Put together a power trio with a really good "rock" rhythm section.

Play some interesting covers, and get a really hot chick singer.

It would be HUGE!

[jkelman]

I'm on the same train.

Pat is a monstrous talent , but I OD on his sound a long time ago.

Actually, the Les Paul/Marshall idea is a pretty great idea for Pat.

Put together a power trio with a really good "rock" rhythm section.

Play some interesting covers, and get a really hot chick singer.

It would be HUGE!

Funny, but I see constant evolution in Metheny's music. Sometimes it's slower than others. But truly, do you really think the Metheny who made Pat Metheny Group (1978) is the same guy, overall, who would go on to make Still Life (Talking) (1987), Imaginary Day (1997) or The Way Up (2005) - and I'm just sticking with PMG albums, for sake of argument? Of course there are certain signatures, but I'd say each of these albums would have been impossible from the artist who'd made even the previous recording in the sequence I've just listed. Each has recognizable elements, of course, but equally there are significant changes afoot on each of these recordings, at least IMHO. It's why I keep sticking with him. He always manages to find some way to surprise me, even as recently as last year and his collaboration with John Zorn, Tap. As for sound, he is constantly creating new colors that initially are used a lot (maybe even excessively, like that guitar synth sound, or more recently the Orchestrion), but later become part of an expanding palette of colors that he uses. Again, compare his tone in 1978 to that of '87, '97, '05 and now, 2014. I think it's hard to say that he's stayed still texturally either.

[Reid]

I'd like to hear Metheny do more freewheeling improv type material a la Scrap Metal. A wild quartet recording with Cuong Vu.

[chalkpie]

I'd like to hear Metheny do more freewheeling improv type material a la Scrap Metal. A wild quartet recording with Cuong Vu.

Totally. Robot vocals too, but then I would have to file a lawsuit.

[Bigpicturekeys]

What? No Love For American Garage?? I have alot of Metheny but started to lose steam after We Live Here. I do really love Lyle Mays piano skills!

[Reginod]

Metheny was supposed to play in my 'burg tonight but I guess it got postponed due to the winter storm. There was an inkling of a chance that I would've gone until the weather went south (or came up FROM the south as it were).

I'll get the new album at some point. I understand how he's become stagnant to a lot of ears, and I haven't kept up with all his releases and projects, but I still get the desire to hear Pat every so often. Is there any artist that has been so prolific for so long that hasn't burned out some listeners? He's still a brilliant player and composer - totally immersed in music - and as Mr Kelman has pointed out, he actually HAS spread out and tried some different things.

[Wah3]

On the rare occasions when Metheny plays with a heavy rock sound, I really dig it. Stuff like Half Life Of Absolution, Roots Of Coincidence, and that crazy tune Counting Texas, on the Trio Live 2000 CD. Also love his bluesy fretless playing on Imaginary Day.

This. Absolutely love those first two tracks. Ill be the person yelling "Half Life of Absolution!" at next month's show in Schenectady (it's a lot harder to yell than "Free bird!"). Will be checking out Counting Texas, thanks for the tip! Any other Metheny songs in the same style? I have less than half his albums.

[Wounded Land]

I'll have to check this one out. I'm a Metheny fan, but the man produces albums so frequently it can be hard to keep up. The last one I got was Orchestrion, which I really liked.

Plus, I got into Chris Potter last year with The Sirens...what a great album.

NP: Television Marquee Moon

[jkelman]

I'll get the new album at some point. I understand how he's become stagnant to a lot of ears, and I haven't kept up with all his releases and projects, but I still get the desire to hear Pat every so often. Is there any artist that has been so prolific for so long that hasn't burned out some listeners? He's still a brilliant player and composer - totally immersed in music - and as Mr Kelman has pointed out, he actually HAS spread out and tried some different things.

Wow, stagnant is not what I hear from folks; I hear that he's become too complex, too chops heavy, stuff like that, from his core constituents. Also a lot of hate for Sanchez, especially his cymbals. That he's forgotten how to write beautiful melodies as he used to.

Of course, I disagree, to a point. Yes, since TWU much of his music has become more complex, but based on Kin alone, there's plenty of wonderful, singable melodies to be found.

I understand if folks don't like what he's been up to; but stagnant? Man, I simply do NOT hear that in anything he's done in the past decade.

[jkelman]

What? No Love For American Garage?? I have alot of Metheny but started to lose steam after We Live Here. I do really love Lyle Mays piano skills!

I like American Garage, but it's not one of my faves. "The Epic:" has a quintessential Mays piano solo and has some strong, prog-like energy, but feels a little dated to me. (Cross the) Heartlands I still love. Other than that, it's just not one of his strongest efforts, for my ears.

[chalkpie]

Wow, stagnant is not what I hear from folks; I hear that he's become too complex, too chops heavy, stuff like that, from his core constituents. Also a lot of hate for Sanchez, especially his cymbals. That he's forgotten how to write beautiful melodies as he used to.

Of course, I disagree, to a point. Yes, since TWU much of his music has become more complex, but based on Kin alone, there's plenty of wonderful, singable melodies to be found.

I understand if folks don't like what he's been up to; but stagnant? Man, I simply do NOT hear that in anything he's done in the past decade.

I think if you choose any track from this new release for instance, you could easily place it on an older album and it would fit like a glove. To me, that is not real progress.

Of course, he has created a truly unique soundworld over the years that is unmistakably "Pat", but at this point I think folks have grown a bit tired of this approach. Like I said before, he absolutely has a musical evolution, but I personally feel he is looking over shoulder at the past a bit much.

If I may be so bold, compare his output to Ligeti for example. Yes, different soundworlds, but the difference is that Ligeti has an evolution that was constantly morphing into something fresh and unique - pushing boundaries as far as he could. PM hasn't gone nearly as far.

An example of what Pat could do to truly catch my ear (as an example): why not lose the "jazz" format; write for a sextet containing clarinet, oboe, 2 cellos, horn, and gamelan percussion, maybe integrated with a sequencer. Yes, maybe a silly example, but you see my point. Man, THAT would be noble as hell! He had the opportunity to really change his game with the Orchestrion project, but I feel he under-utilized that format in those compositions....they could gave been easily been performed by the PMG. So what was the point? On Kin, I hear similar compositions augmented with some new textures (a la his multi-instrumentalist), but he's basically going down the same road he's been down before.

Whether I'm right or wrong, as a fan for over 25 years now, I feel I have earned the privilege to challenge his output at this point. Believe me, I am not alone. Some of my good pals, who are huge fans of his feel the same way.

[BobM]

Even if you are or or not a fan of his current sound, you've got to concede that he's changed it up quite a bit, exploring many different jazz genre's over the last 35-40 years. Yeah, that's right - mid 70's is when he hit the spotlight folks.

I think he's entitled to have his own sound and explore it to the limit of his capabilities, which are extroadinary.

Would I love to hear a "Secret Stories 2"? You betcha. Would I love to hear an album of "The Roots of Coincidence" take off's? Tres Cool.

[JJ88]

I like American Garage, but it's not one of my faves. "The Epic:" has a quintessential Mays piano solo and has some strong, prog-like energy, but feels a little dated to me. (Cross the) Heartlands I still love. Other than that, it's just not one of his strongest efforts, for my ears.

I like the album a lot- the first PMG album I heard, so that may have something to do with it- but with a few reservations. The 'rock' title track isn't the best thing he's ever done IMHO, and the ending of 'The Epic' is a bit cheesy due to the keyboards. It's somewhat overlooked because as far as I can see, little on it was seen as 'classic'- see 'San Lorenzo', 'Phase Dance', 'Are You Going With Me', 'First Circle', 'Last Train Home'...I personally like 'The Search' and 'Heartland' as much as any of those, though.

[nosebone]

As Falls Wichita, so Falls Wichita Falls is still my favorite Pat Metheny album.

That's the one I'd grab if the house caught fire.

[jkelman]

I think if you choose any track from this new release for instance, you could easily place it on an older album and it would fit like a glove. To me, that is not real progress.

Of course, he has created a truly unique soundworld over the years that is unmistakably "Pat", but at this point I think folks have grown a bit tired of this approach. Like I said before, he absolutely has a musical evolution, but I personally feel he is looking over shoulder at the past a bit much.

If I may be so bold, compare his output to Ligeti for example. Yes, different soundworlds, but the difference is that Ligeti has an evolution that was constantly morphing into something fresh and unique - pushing boundaries as far as he could. PM hasn't gone nearly as far.

An example of what Pat could do to truly catch my ear (as an example): why not lose the "jazz" format; write for a sextet containing clarinet, oboe, 2 cellos, horn, and gamelan percussion, maybe integrated with a sequencer. Yes, maybe a silly example, but you see my point. Man, THAT would be noble as hell! He had the opportunity to really change his game with the Orchestrion project, but I feel he under-utilized that format in those compositions....they could gave been easily been performed by the PMG. So what was the point? On Kin, I hear similar compositions augmented with some new textures (a la his multi-instrumentalist), but he's basically going down the same road he's been down before.

Whether I'm right or wrong, as a fan for over 25 years now, I feel I have earned the privilege to challenge his output at this point. Believe me, I am not alone. Some of my good pals, who are huge fans of his feel the same way.

Of course you can challenge his output - and you don't need to be a 25 year-old fan to do so

I just don't agree that there's no progression on Kin. I think it's a combination of confluence and smaller steps forward. A lot of people hear things that reflect on past albums; the difference is that I'm fine with that. With someone whose discography is as broad as Metheny's, I think he's entitled.

I also don't think every record needs to be a major forward leap - I don't think artists with longevity, for the most part, can sustain it. But for me, Kin has plenty of forward motion, built into the self-references.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.
Cheers!
John