Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 121

Thread: New Mike Rutherford Memoir: The Living Years

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    Yep. Rutherford would kill 'Looking For Someone', by his description. What he doesn't take into consideration is that the bits from the different writers actually put more variety into a particular piece of music, and lends itself to repeated listens. Different moods within the same song are okay. More than okay, often enough. And the blended guitars in Stagnation are fantastic. I can't allow myself to even imagine the sacrilege that would result from a 3 minute Mike and the Mechanics style version of either of these songs.

    And personally, I think even Mike's beautiful 'Ripples' would be (comparatively) nothing without Tony's stunningly beautiful instrumental section.
    Yeah, mike likes to think he has learned a lot about song writing and has grown a lot. But the truth is, his best work was done when was in his 20s. He also hasn't written anything memorable in decades.

    Maybe creativity is for the young, and composition knowledge doesn't matter all that much.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by firth5th View Post
    Yeah, mike likes to think he has learned a lot about song writing and has grown a lot. But the truth is, his best work was done when was in his 20s. He also hasn't written anything memorable in decades.

    Maybe creativity is for the young, and composition knowledge doesn't matter all that much.
    How true this is!

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by firth5th View Post

    Maybe creativity is for the young, and composition knowledge doesn't matter all that much.
    I would say young AND hungry. When you're driven around by a private chauffeur all the time and coddled on by team of assistants, I think you you lose the urgency.

    Also, in Mike's case, he never experienced massive success until he streamlined his writing. The mathematical formula to success then kicks in.
    "Young man says you are what you eat, eat well."
    http://www.blissbomb.net/

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSolution View Post
    That's disappointing. Drug/drunk stories are rarely interesting to anyone who wasn't there.
    This is probably you must be THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS, the Last Virgin never have smoke pot in their life ever, any kind, ok

  5. #55
    Member PotatoSolution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by highaltitude View Post
    This is probably you must be THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS, the Last Virgin never have smoke pot in their life ever, any kind, ok
    Based on the incoherence of this comment, I think you just made my point for me.

  6. #56
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Vallejo, CA
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    I can't allow myself to even imagine the sacrilege that would result from a 3 minute Mike and the Mechanics style version of either of these songs.
    I always imagined Steve Hackett was taking the mickey out of Mike & the Mechanics with his version of "Your Own Special Way."
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  7. #57
    Member Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Newburyport, MA
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSolution View Post
    Based on the incoherence of this comment, I think you just made my point for me.

    I've got a bike you can ride it if you like

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by highaltitude View Post
    This is probably you must be THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS, the Last Virgin never have smoke pot in their life ever, any kind, ok
    For not to for the one who is the one that was with no one who was near the front back of the one who corned the paste of you dog river you were the one that was one of never. ok!
    Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!

  9. #59
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    southern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7,122
    Here's another quote which I found interesting:

    I wrote one song, 'Harlequin', where I tried to play both my guitar part and Ant's on a single twelve-string guitar by tuning the pairs of strings to harmonies. It was pretty dodgy. Not my finest hour lyrically either: "There was once a harvest in this land, reap from the turquoise sky, harlequin, harlequin". 'Harvest' is a word I've learned not to use in songs.

    'Seven Stones' was very much Tony's song. It was a great example of what I've come to call Tony's cabaret chords: his big, schmaltzy, music-hall chords which Phil and I struggled with, but he loved. In the end, we had to make rule:Tony could have three or four per album and no more.

    (Steve Hackett)'s real strength was doing the most amazing, unique, quirky-sounding things on guitar - he brought something to the band that Ant never would have done and I fully appreciated it. But Steve didn't get satisfaction from that: he wanted to be a writer.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    *** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Here's another quote which I found interesting:

    I wrote one song, 'Harlequin', where I tried to play both my guitar part and Ant's on a single twelve-string guitar by tuning the pairs of strings to harmonies. It was pretty dodgy. Not my finest hour lyrically either: "There was once a harvest in this land, reap from the turquoise sky, harlequin, harlequin". 'Harvest' is a word I've learned not to use in songs.

    'Seven Stones' was very much Tony's song. It was a great example of what I've come to call Tony's cabaret chords: his big, schmaltzy, music-hall chords which Phil and I struggled with, but he loved. In the end, we had to make rule:Tony could have three or four per album and no more.

    (Steve Hackett)'s real strength was doing the most amazing, unique, quirky-sounding things on guitar - he brought something to the band that Ant never would have done and I fully appreciated it. But Steve didn't get satisfaction from that: he wanted to be a writer.
    2 songs that I really love in every way :-) I like Tony's "schmaltzy" chords. I always really dug the guitar in HARLEQUIN and assumed it was 2 guitars. I learned a similar approach to alternative 12 string tuning from a Larry Coryell album where he explained it in the liner notes. I used it on 2 songs from my previous group MAGUS ("North Atlantic Song" and "She's The Lady"). If memory serves me, it was B/E E/A A/D D/G F#/B B/E (from low to high). Gives an amazing sound. Works on certain chords better than others.

  11. #61
    I don't know how anyone could call Tony's chords in Seven Stones "schmaltzy" at all. I usually think of that word for how Barry Manillow writes. I think Mike's got some odd opinions on that but in contrast, I remember seeing an interview where he said Tony was his favourite song writer. So, maybe it depends on his mood of the day?

  12. #62
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    southern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Baird View Post
    I don't know how anyone could call Tony's chords in Seven Stones "schmaltzy" at all. I usually think of that word for how Barry Manillow writes. I think Mike's got some odd opinions on that but in contrast, I remember seeing an interview where he said Tony was his favourite song writer. So, maybe it depends on his mood of the day?
    He is hard on Tony in the book, but it comes across very much in an 'old friend' kind of way. They clearly had their differences - both musically and in lifestyle choice/personality, but they are also clearly friends. Tony comments on the book in the latest PROG magazine issue, saying "It's full of inaccuracies, of course, and Mike's not been particularly polite about me - but that's fair enough. It all makes for good reading".
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    *** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***

  13. #63
    Member bill g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Mount Rainier
    Posts
    2,646
    Only Mike Rutherford would call Tony's great chords 'schmaltzy'. Although I really like 'Harlequin', and have no problem with the colorful lyrics (much better than later Rutherford lyrics, in my opinion), Tony's 3 or 4, as Mike puts it, are always highlights for me.

  14. #64
    Member bill g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Mount Rainier
    Posts
    2,646
    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    2 songs that I really love in every way :-) I like Tony's "schmaltzy" chords. I always really dug the guitar in HARLEQUIN and assumed it was 2 guitars. I learned a similar approach to alternative 12 string tuning from a Larry Coryell album where he explained it in the liner notes. I used it on 2 songs from my previous group MAGUS ("North Atlantic Song" and "She's The Lady"). If memory serves me, it was B/E E/A A/D D/G F#/B B/E (from low to high). Gives an amazing sound. Works on certain chords better than others.
    Very interesting. I'm very curious to try that!

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    Very interesting. I'm very curious to try that!
    I forgot to mention that the "octave" strings are tuned down not up, otherwise strings would be breaking ;-)

  16. #66
    I've been interested in Rutherford's alternate Tunings for a long time.

    If anyone has "alternate info" please chime in,

    1. Musical Box EADF# B F#
    2. Cinema Show (First Half) DD GG AD EG BB EE
    3. Turn it on Again - double drop D
    4. Ripples - no idea what he used on that
    5. More fool me - no idea
    6. Squonk - may also be double drop D
    7. Harlequin - see above
    8. Your own special way - no idea
    9. Supper's Ready - pretty sure Steve, Mike and Tony used standard
    10. Fly on a Wind shield - maybe double drop D, same with Supernatural Anesthetist.

    Those blokes in Genesis were pretty damn creative. Mike with his alt Tunings, Steve with his guitar sounds, Tony with his use of keyboards ( fuzz into Pianet, double Mellotron sounds, phase in his RMI), Phil and Peter goes without saying.

  17. #67
    Member bill g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Mount Rainier
    Posts
    2,646
    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    I forgot to mention that the "octave" strings are tuned down not up, otherwise strings would be breaking ;-)
    Yes, I figured!

  18. #68
    Member Koreabruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Chuncheon, South Korea
    Posts
    1,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Adinfinitum View Post
    I've been interested in Rutherford's alternate Tunings for a long time.

    If anyone has "alternate info" please chime in,

    1. Musical Box EADF# B F#
    2. Cinema Show (First Half) DD GG AD EG BB EE
    3. Turn it on Again - double drop D
    4. Ripples - no idea what he used on that
    5. More fool me - no idea
    6. Squonk - may also be double drop D
    7. Harlequin - see above
    8. Your own special way - no idea
    9. Supper's Ready - pretty sure Steve, Mike and Tony used standard
    10. Fly on a Wind shield - maybe double drop D, same with Supernatural Anesthetist.

    Those blokes in Genesis were pretty damn creative. Mike with his alt Tunings, Steve with his guitar sounds, Tony with his use of keyboards ( fuzz into Pianet, double Mellotron sounds, phase in his RMI), Phil and Peter goes without saying.
    Mike has said that the bottom 3 pairs of strings were all tuned to F# on "Musical Box", so if that's true, then it's E A D F# F# F#, though he could be mistaken. He has often remarked about forgetting some of his tunings and that he relied on Daryl Steurmer to recall them (and Daryl always could remember them).

  19. #69
    Member Koreabruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Chuncheon, South Korea
    Posts
    1,501
    This is from Guitar Player, 1 August 2007. It in an interview by our very own Anil Prasad (a.k.a. Innerviews):

    “I had all kinds of weird tunings on older songs such as ‘Cinema Show’ and ‘Ripples,’ and it got so complicated,” says Rutherford. “When we’d come back to tour after a break, I sometimes couldn’t remember the tunings, so I finally said, ‘Right—I’m done with that.’ The one thing I always do, however, is tune the low E down to D. That makes the minor chords sound harder, and the rest of the chords sound richer, which really suits the character of most Genesis songs.” -

    Didn't know he ALWAYS tuned the low E down to D. Interesting!

    See more at: http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/....ZKkTYKt3.dpuf

  20. #70
    Member Koreabruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Chuncheon, South Korea
    Posts
    1,501
    Found these on another Genesis site:

    Cinema Show: Acoustic 12 string tuning in first half only - the second half is in standard tuning.

    1st & 2nd strings: E (unison)
    3rd & 4th strings: B (unison)
    5th string: G
    6th string: down to E
    7th string: D
    8th string: down to A
    9th & 10th strings: down to G (+ octave)
    11th & 12th strings: down to D (+ octave)

    Musical Box: Electric 12 string

    1st & 2nd strings: F# (unison)
    3rd & 4th strings: F# (unison)
    5th & 6th strings: F# (+octave)
    7th & 8th strings: D (+octave)
    9th & 10th strings: A (+octave)
    11th & 12th strings: E (+octave)

    It's been suggested that the 3rd & 4th strings could also be tuned to C#.

    Turn It On Again:

    1st string: E
    2nd string: A
    3rd string: F#
    4th string: D
    5th string: B
    6th string: E

    More Fool Me:

    This is in some kind of open Eb tuning, possibly:

    1st string: Eb
    2nd string: Bb
    3rd string: G
    4th string: Eb
    5th string: Bb
    6th string: Eb

    Harlequin:

    Open G tuning:

    1st string: D
    2nd string: B
    3rd string: G
    4th string: D
    5th string: B
    6th string: D

    Dance on the Volcano, Los Endos, Squonk, Home by the Sea (and others):

    Dropped D tuning (top Es tuned down to D with all other strings as standard)

    In The Rapids/ It: (12 string)

    These are probably in standard tuning, though the bottom E may be tuned down to D. An alternative suggestion that may make them easier to play is:

    1st string: E
    2nd string: B
    3rd string: F#
    4th string: C#
    5th string: A
    6th string: D

    Someone else noted that Fly on a Windshield has an alternate tuning for the RICK 12 string.... the G strings are tuned up to A's. The rest of tuning is standard.

    http://genesisgts.conforums.com/inde...num=1267127194

  21. #71
    Member jode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I have to say, I've always been surprised Phil Collins has copped so much flak when you look at Mike and the Mechanics- the most 'commercial' side-project any member of Genesis has been involved with, by far.
    Did Mike Rutherford ruin Genesis

  22. #72
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Vallejo, CA
    Posts
    1,012
    Geez, no wonder he doesn't remember half of those tunings. I'll bet it seemed rich and adventurous at the time but when you're older, becomes incredibly complicated to have to remember. And taking time on stage to change those tunings… Peter Gabriel probably had to adlib a dozen spoken word novels!
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    Geez, no wonder he doesn't remember half of those tunings. I'll bet it seemed rich and adventurous at the time but when you're older, becomes incredibly complicated to have to remember. And taking time on stage to change those tunings… Peter Gabriel probably had to adlib a dozen spoken word novels!
    Or use several guitars, which are tuned differently.

  24. #74
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Left Coast
    Posts
    2,170
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    Or use several guitars, which are tuned differently.
    Exactly, though in the early days maybe they couldn't afford to have that many guitars around, or a tech to manage it all.

    But going back to something quoted above, it's very revealing that Mike has made a rule never to use the word "harvest" in a song. To me that says he's really tried hard to become a commercially successful pop songwriter over the years. "Harvest" is an evocative word with a lot of color that can give a song a wonderful amount of edge without trying hard. But clearly edge is no longer a quality Mike wants in his songs, which speaks volumes. I couldn't imagine Peter Gabriel ever being so dogmatic about what words were and weren't suitable as lyrics.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Exactly, though in the early days maybe they couldn't afford to have that many guitars around, or a tech to manage it all.

    But going back to something quoted above, it's very revealing that Mike has made a rule never to use the word "harvest" in a song. To me that says he's really tried hard to become a commercially successful pop songwriter over the years. "Harvest" is an evocative word with a lot of color that can give a song a wonderful amount of edge without trying hard. But clearly edge is no longer a quality Mike wants in his songs, which speaks volumes. I couldn't imagine Peter Gabriel ever being so dogmatic about what words were and weren't suitable as lyrics.
    Harvest is in suppers ready.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •