What percentage of classic period (late 60's & 70's) prog do you think is crap?

[soundsweird]

I brought this up because of the old truism that says that "95% of everything is crap" (I've also heard versions that say "90%" or even "99%"). Of course, it's certainly a matter of opinion, but I think that most of us here would say that a fairly small percentage of classic period late 60's and 70's prog is truly crappy. I'd say maybe 25-30%, based on all the albums I've heard since I started listening to prog in the late 60's. I'm leaving more recent prog out of the discussion just to keep things more focused on prog's heyday.

[Paulrus]

If we confine ourselves to the classic '69-'75 era (I know that not everyone even agrees on this definition, but bear with me) I'd say it breaks down like this:

- 10% Amazing
- 30% Good
- 30% OK, but disposable/forgettable
- 20% Fatally flawed, but they're trying
- 10% What were they thinking?

Because we're talking about prog, sometimes this happens within the span of a single work. Tales comes quickly to mind.

[Lebofsky]

I remember listening to all this stuff as a kid, soaking it up like a sponge, and thinking how I would never find any music better than this.

But.. you grow up, your tastes change, your ears get better at hearing the weaknesses... and you get a more honest, third-party, hindsight take on the whole 60's/70's prog catalog, and it's quite interesting what has staying power and what doesn't. Some things I adored way back when seem like garbage now, and some things I thought were filler or completist fetishes are still standing as strong as ever.

I won't name names, as everybody's opinions on this matter are valid and I don't want to sully their faves, but I'd say, intuitively, the percentage is more like 75%. Maybe higher. It also really matters what "crap" means exactly. Maybe I'm being harsh because so many artists have since taken prog forms that were *okay* and made them much much better, thus rending the older *okay* stuff garbage by comparison. Also, global aesthetics change and it's nobody's fault, but it's hard not to look back at the old days and cringe a little bit just at an aesthetic level. I'm sure the future will look back at now the same way.

- Matt

[Hobo Chang Ba]

67.823%

[Yves]

67.823%

Damn! You're right! I forgot to carry the 1....

[Digital_Man]

Probably less than the newer prog.

The thing is, I would think that most of the really crappy older prog would have been forgotten by now. I often wait at least six months to a year before buying an album to see if it has staying power rather than be on the bandwagon of the latest new thing. That kind of hype is for pop music not prog. I say that because these days it does seem like the newer stuff gets talked about, promoted and hyped up more than the older stuff(aside from the big five or six anyway).

[Trane]

If we confine ourselves to the classic '69-'75 era (I know that not everyone even agrees on this definition, but bear with me) I'd say it breaks down like this:

- 10% Amazing
- 30% Good
- 30% OK, but disposable/forgettable
- 20% Fatally flawed, but they're trying
- 10% What were they thinking?.

This sounds reasonable ... Don't care to elaborate more, but the amazing and good %age was probably higher in prog (in the larger sense) than in other genres (jazz excepted, maybe)

Probably less than the newer prog.
.

Yeah, I'd say that too, but it's also partly because I'm less receptive to it, often because it sounds "ala sumthing" (but surprisingly enough I like a fair bit of retro-prog)

[Paulrus]

Yeah, I'd say that too, but it's also partly because I'm less receptive to it, often because it sounds "ala sumthing" (but surprisingly enough I like a fair bit of retro-prog)

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, the minute you step out of the '69-'75 classic era the percentages shift quickly. After '75 the degree of good to amazing music diminishes and the mediocre category swells. There's still not that much utter dreck but it does start to pick up. After 1980 the whole thing falls off a cliff and doesn't recover til the early 90s when everything improves nicely, though the amount of good to amazing music is a tiny sliver compared to the early 70s.

But who really cares?

[Just Eric]

90

[Scrotum Scissor]

For me, I think it's more a divide of 50/50% ranging from mediocre to horrible on the one hand and from fairly good to brilliant on the other. My main problem looking back, is the sometimes overtly obvious inconsistencies of many artists - and not least those "big six/seven/nine...". With the exception of King Crimson, none of those appear among my fave names from that era and approach; not just because I grew tired and consequently became more critical, but due to the fact that I discovered music which IMO is way more interesting, challenging, creative and artistically coherent.

[profusion]

As I've gotten older, I tend to take a given piece of music for what it's trying to be, rather than looking at a purely objective standard. As such, I tend to find a much lower percentage of classic prog to be "crap" than when I was in my twenties. Certainly among the bigger, well-funded bands, the music was almost always well thought-out and constructed, with a high standard of musicianship.

Subjectively, I only cringe in the moments when those bands got too twee or precious. It's why I have a hard time with Gentle Giant, for example. But that's on me, not them.

[Yanks2014]

Wow, what a positive thread topic! Do any of you wake up in the morning and think "how much crappy prog is there"? I mean seriously, why even give it a moments notice? I can hardly keep up with all the high quality new prog releases, and I still have a lot of older stuff to discover. Do I come across a good amount of music I don't like in my never ending search? Of course, but I then move on to something else. With sound samples everywhere, it's hard to get burned these days. I can only think of a few sub standard purchases I've made in the past several years, and that's a lot of music. If anything, I find prog I'm lukewarm to at worst and I skip it. The stuff I would really hate is usually from a sub-genre or style I'm just not into, so I ignore it.

As to some of you and your evolving tastes, I kind of wish that happened with me. Instead, what I loved 20 years ago still sounds great for the most part, and I've expanded my taste to include things I might not have liked back then. But I very seldom hear something that I bought back then and say "what was I thinking". I guess some things don't blow me away like they once did, but even that is the exception.

[profusion]

Wow, what a positive thread topic! Do any of you wake up in the morning and think "how much crappy prog is there"? I mean seriously, why even give it a moments notice?

Prog fans on the Internet. What do you expect of us? :

As to some of you and your evolving tastes, I kind of wish that happened with me. Instead, what I loved 20 years ago still sounds great for the most part, and I've expanded my taste to include things I might not have liked back then. But I very seldom hear something that I bought back then and say "what was I thinking". I guess some things don't blow me away like they once did, but even that is the exception.

I've had periods where I didn't like some of my youthful musical tastes, but I've pretty much come back around to everything.

The interesting experience I've had is rediscovering music I listened to years ago (mostly not prog) and finding new aspects that I'd never noticed before. It makes you realize how even relatively simple good music has lots of heart and dedication put into it. The musicians and writers put in little "easter eggs" that it might take you decades to discover. And it didn't make them a single additional dollar.

[emperorken]

What's crap to one person is bliss to another. How can you quantify something subjective?

[syncopatico]

90

Sturgeon's Law: "90 percent of everything is crud." (or crap! )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law

[Kcrimso]

I don't LOVE everything of the classic period but I think that there was surprisingly low amount of stuff that could be described as crap. Maybe ten percent.

[JJ88]

Very little. The misfires for me are largely from the more successful bands over-reaching themselves. For instance, 'A Passion Play' I have not warmed to.

As the genre rolled on, I think the ratio increased, for obvious reasons (like all genres a template was set and cliches were created).

[Brian Griffin]

I don't LOVE everything of the classic period but I think that there was surprisingly low amount of stuff that could be described as crap. Maybe ten percent.

I'm with you

BG

[julioscissors]

67.823%

Nuts. Beat me to it.

[JKL2000]

Don't forget the All Things Prog law: "If it's nae Prog it's crap!"

[klothos]

I think that one thing that should always be a reminder here is that, back then, the general public didnt recognize subgenres. Back then, it was all "Rock". So the average consumer (including teenage girls) could own albums by Led Zeppelin, Yes, Wings, Tommy James, T-Rex, Pink Floyd, Grateful Dead, Elton John, The Sweet, etc and it was all just Rock Music.

So it has to be considered that the form that would later be classified as Progressive Rock as a common term with the average public was part of the "mainstream": There were many bands that were incorporating it into their sound as "artists" (it was almost a flavor-of-the-time) without a lot of pressure from their business associates

[nosebone]

I love the sound of 60s/70s prog.

I can't get that from other eras.

[Trane]

I think that one thing that should always be a reminder here is that, back then, the general public didnt recognize subgenres. Back then, it was all "Rock". So the average consumer (including teenage girls) could own albums by Led Zeppelin, Yes, Wings, Tommy James, T-Rex, Pink Floyd, Grateful Dead, Elton John, The Sweet, etc and it was all just Rock Music.

Most of the highschool chicks I was alolowed to enter their bedrooms had indeed such albums in their collection, but also Bay City rollers, Abba and Bee Gees... etc....

[PeterG]

What's crap to one person is bliss to another. How can you quantify something subjective?

+1

[cavgator]

Speaking strictly for myself (major bands):

Desert Island, Wear it out

ELP...................Tarkus, Trilogy, BSS
Yes...................TYA, Fragile, CttE
King Crimson.......ItCotCK, LTiA,Red, S&BB
Genesis..............Trespass, SEbtP, TotT
Pink Floyd...........Animals, WYWH, Meddle
Jethro Tull..........Benefit, TaaB, aPP
Led Zeppelin.......HotH, IV, Presence, Phy Graf
Elton John..........GYBR, s/t, Madman
Stones..............Beggars, Bleed, Sticky, Exile
Who.................WN, Quad, Tommy, Sell Out
Beatles..............SGT Pepper, WA, Abbey, LIB

Very Good, Many Listens

ELP...................ELP, Pictures
Yes...................Relayer, GFTO
King Crimson.....Posiedon, Discipline
Genesis.............NC, Foxtrot, W&W
Pink Floyd..........DSotM, AMLoR, Wall
Jethro Tull.........Aqua, Stand, SotW, MitG, A
Led Zeppelin......I, II, III
Elton John..........Tumbleweed, DSMIOtPP
Stones..............IOR&R, GHS
Who.................Quick One, Who Are You

OK, but not WOW!

ELP...................Works
Yes...................T&aW, Tales
King Crimson......ATTWT
Genesis..............Duke, Abacab
Pink Floyd...........OBC, tDB
Jethro Tull..........War Child, TOtRR
Led Zeppelin.......Out Door
Elton John..........HC, Blue Moves
Stones..............B&B, SW, Some Girls
Who.................By Numbers
Beatles..............None

Not a Favorite, but Listenable..................... and rarely listen

ELP...................Black Moon.........................LB, Hot Seat
Yes...................Drama....................... ........Tormato, 80s
King Crimson.....Beat, ToaPP........................Islands
Genesis.............Duke, Abacab.....................Post Abacab
Pink Floyd...........Ummagumma, AHM, SoS....tFC
Jethro Tull..........HH, Stormwatch..................Later
Led Zeppelin.......Coda
Elton John..........Caribou, CPT Fantastic...........later
Stones............................................ ...............Early, late
Who............................................... ................Post-Moon
Beatles........................................... ................Early stuff


So based on this extraordinarily unscientific opinion, I'd say the great majority of the stuff from the late sixties/1970s period is either good or great. throughout the rock umbrella.

And as ever, your mileage may vary.