So, you like ...And Then There Were Three? Those that compare Danger Money to Asia are not listening clearly. Only Nothing To Loose sounds like Asia. Btw, thanks a lot, Duncan. I was going to play Tormato tonight.Originally Posted by cavgator
So, you like ...And Then There Were Three? Those that compare Danger Money to Asia are not listening clearly. Only Nothing To Loose sounds like Asia. Btw, thanks a lot, Duncan. I was going to play Tormato tonight.
My fave 5 Yes in order:
The yes album
Fragile
Close to the edge
Time and a word(including Dear father)
Tormato
Yes.
...for those lazy/aging proggers having lost musical inspiration.
Musicians first. Record labels second. I'll leave the public out of the equation. The trend followers were always trend followers and in Europe, the connoisseurs had jumped ship two years ago and went on the punk/new wave journey or dug underground.
I think children are the reason.
Musicians and their fans were settling and starting to have kids. By the end of the seventies, beginning of the eighties, the artists were starting to leave the drugs and alcohol out of the studio, and there was no time for a 20-minute multiparted epos, because there were dypers to be changed back at home.
Likewise, the fan was also expanding. Again, they didn't have time to listen to a 20-minute epic, for every 5 minutes a baby crying would need to be comforted.
I won't be adding anything new to the conversation but maybe we should look at Tormato not as an underrated album but as an overhated album. I think most true Yes fans' first reaction is to hate this one because it signals a decline from where they had been. But its got enough good parts to it to add up to a better-than-some-other-Yes releases and the material was on par with a lot of prog releases for the end of the 70s (Breathless/I Can See Your House From Here, Love Beach, Azure D'or, Life Beyond LA, Reel to Real, etc)
Here's what I like about this one:
Release Release
Future Times/Rejoice
Onward
The bass playing on Silent Wings of Freedom
Here's what I don't like:
Arriving UFO
Circus of Heaven
the artwork (not that other Yes album art work hasn't been pretty bad like Yes and Yes Album)
no epics (from Awaken to this?)
the lyrics to Don't Kill the Whales (the song itself rocks out, but I find the lyrics to be pretty groan-worthy)
Again, I think the problem with Tormato is that it sits between two YES albums that are considered among their best of their classic era. GFTO (an album I've never been crazy about) is considered their "last great (or classic) album" with the classic lineup (minus Bruford). Drama was probably the album that should've followed GFTO after a couple years hiatus. The group falls apart, regroups reinvigorated with a more modern sound, but it's still YES, and it's still prog (I'm talking about Drama). Drama was like a teaser. It kicked off the 80s with a bang, but for whatever reason the whole thing imploded, and that was the end of YES. Tormato sounds like a stop gap between two eras. Some good songs, but it (the album) sounds half baked. Like some of those songs could've been huge epics.
EDIT: Forgot to mention the album art too. Personally, I'd rather look at the cover of Tormato than GFTO, but both covers, although not horrible, are just not good album covers for YES. The cover of Tormato is kind of clever in a self deprecating way. In other words they didn't know where the hell they were headed. Drama, OTOH had a great cover, and it was a new start. It was sleak and modern, yet it was YES, and it was PROG/ROCK (and it all crumbled and ended too soon, imo).
Last edited by Vic2012; 01-26-2014 at 08:06 AM.
Well GFTO certainly doesn't sound any better than 'Tormato' IMHO. But material-wise, it's terrific, with a contender for their best ever track in 'Awaken'. The only song on it that over time, I've become rather less enamoured with is 'Parallels'. It's decent enough in itself, but rather robbed of momentum by the decision to use the church organ, which is too lumbering (for want of a better word) for this sort of music...and made worse by that cavernous sound quality. Notably it's the only song on there that never really endured in their set-lists.
I too feel that it would have been much better for them to have further developed, say, 'Silent Wings' than have the more inconsequential shorter songs. But context is everything.
Last edited by JJ88; 01-26-2014 at 08:54 AM.
I've always wondered what it would have sounded like had it made it to Chris' Fish Out Of Water, as I believe was originally intended.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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I agree with that. I think GFTO sounds too wet. Too much depth and echo. It's not horrible but that's one reason I've never particulatly cared for it. I HATE the title track. I just can't stand hearing Howe play pedal steel. I've got nothing against that instrument, I just hate when Steve plays it (there might be an exception or two though) Wondrous Stories is a nice, classic Yes song but I've never been partial to some of those twee, airy fairy Yes songs. They're good songs as long as they're balanced with burners like Gates Of Delirium, Sound Chaser, etc. (you get what I mean?). Just never understood why people go crazy over that track. Awaken is a very good Yes epic but I've never gone gaga over it. It's my least favorite of their big epics (I even like Mind Drive more. A LOT more.) Parallels is my favorite song from GFTO. Most people dislike it, but it's the best song on the album for me.Well GFTO certainly doesn't sound any better than 'Tormato' IMHO
Is "To Be Over" one of those twee, airy fairy Yes songs?
BG
"When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."
^ Yes, but I like it more than Wondrous Stories (the worst of the twee, Yes songs). They aren't bad songs, I just would rather hear Heart Of The Sunrise, or Siberian Khatru.
There was still enough Genesis in And Then There Were Three to enjoy it. It wasn't the great departure that followed it. And you may be right about DM, but to me, it was definitely a more packaged product than the looser feel of the debut. Wetton's vocals were dominant on most of the album, whereas on the debut (and Carrying No Cross), it was more an instrument. IMO.
From the Genesis - Seconds Out Thread, it's more appropriate here:
Oh, it was okay! But there were no clowns, or lions, or tigers, or bears! No candy-floss! Toffee-apples! NO CLOWNS.
"Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)
Was it a so called "challenge" for prog bands of 70s to drop into pop, or more the demand of their labels?
IMO "To Be Over" is one of the greatest cuts these guys laid down - it's about 10 minutes of perfection
What do you find "twee" about it?
BG
"When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."
Maybe "twee" is the wrong word. I'm just saying that I normally don't care for some of those long, symphonic, pastoral type of Yes songs like And You And I and To Be Over. Again, they are great compositions but I tend to skip them as I usually prefer the pot boilers like Sound Chaser, Roundabout, All Good People, etc. I still think Fragile is their best album (well, it is my favorite).What do you find "twee" about it?
I'm not sure that was supposed to be funny...
they were trying to do folk/bluegrass. That's one thing Yes totally sucked at imho, they had no frame of reference to do those genres well. Pastoral acoustic stuff, yeah. But TBO is just a little too raw where it should be gentle, and too saccharine where it should be sweet and heartfelt. The horrible engineering doesn't help that album any either.
Having spawned about 7 and 5 years ago finding that I have very little interest in travelling to gigs & spending a fortune on tickets - well, I don't really have the time to do it anymore. Work & Children seem to have become our life. Hence I hardly go and see bands that I'd go and watch as soon as they announced a tour. I have been thinking the same thoughts as yourself.I think children are the reason.
Musicians and their fans were settling and starting to have kids. By the end of the seventies, beginning of the eighties, the artists were starting to leave the drugs and alcohol out of the studio, and there was no time for a 20-minute multiparted epos, because there were dypers to be changed back at home.
Likewise, the fan was also expanding. Again, they didn't have time to listen to a 20-minute epic, for every 5 minutes a baby crying would need to be comforted.
I rarely have time to listen to music at home, as well - I do all my listening commuting to work or at work. As soon as I turn on some music at home, the kids turn it off!
It wasn't.
Speaking of unintentionally funny: the Seconds Out thread.
Nope.
A closer example would be:
But that's closer to just self-deprecation rather than an attempt at humor.Now the verses I've sang
Don't add much weight to the story in my head
So I'm thinking I should go and write a punch line.
But they're so hard to find
In my cosmic mind
So I think I'll take a look out of the window.
A better example would be "Money" with Rick's great narrative. Though of course it never was an official track, so MR's point is generally valid.
I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.
Oh, of course it was. People are being snotty about it because they hate this album. But I can't imagine Jon didn't see the humor in the idea that all these wondrous things were occurring before his kid's eyes and the little brat was annoyed because it wasn't really a "circus."
"Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)
I've always assumed it was meant to be more cute in an "Out of the mouths of babes" kind of way. Reminds me somewhat of Tull's "Batteries Not Included", where Ian's kid (I think) is complaining that the toy he got for Christmas is no good because it has no batteries.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
I disagree on Parallells. Not that it's not held up quite as well as the other songs because imo it hasn't, but about the pipe organ- I think that's the only reason it's listenable is the huge mega-awesomeness of the organ. Have you heard it in rehearsal with the Polymoog? It's a disaster. And that's why it never works live; until recently you just couldn't get that sound live and the keyboardists they've had have never gone the extra mile to really get a sample that works. If you want a dry sound everyone should be praising Tormato to the rafters because it's what GftO would have been without reverb and organ. I think the wetness of GftO is the nest thing about it.
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