Leonard Bernstein's symphonies

[Fracktured]

Not much is talked about Bernstein's symphonies. He wrote 3 pieces of music which are titled symphonies. Only the first follows any kind of a normal structure of a symphony, scored for orchestra and soprano soloist. The second is scored for orchestra and piano. Almost more of a piano concerto, but not quite. The third is the one that you would either love or hate, it being scored for orchestra, choir, soprano soloist and narrator. It's subtitled "Kaddish", a Jewish prayer for the dead. Bernstein said he wrote it in memory of John F. Kennedy. I remember Bernstein took some heat from the Jewish community for some of the harsh words which he wrote in the narration parts. "You ask for faith, where is Your own?" "Tin God, Your bargain is Tin, it crumples in my hand and where is faith now, Yours or mine?!" To me these were the high water mark of his composing career and I don't think he ever got the acclaim he should have for them.

[rcarlberg]

To me these were the high water mark of his composing career and I don't think he ever got the acclaim he should have for them.

High water mark for me are the symphonic dances from West Side Story, Fancy Free, and the dances from On The Town. Plus all those great recordings of Copland et al.

[Fracktured]

High water mark for me are the symphonic dances from West Side Story, Fancy Free, and the dances from On The Town. Plus all those great recordings of Copland et al.

Yeah, I think most people feel the same way as you. I believe I'm the one of a very select few who disagree. His symphonies get little notoriety.

[Baribrotzer]

Bernstein apparently thought his own high-water mark was Mass. Which, I think, says something about him. Mass could almost be described as prog done by an older classical composer - it was an odd combination of formal classical music, Broadway show tunes, Bacharach-like pop music, attempts at folk music, attempts at rock, attempts at jazz, attempts at R&B, and pure chaos. All held together, or sort-of held together, by the typical Bernstein use, re-use, transformation, and re-transformation of multiple themes and motives. That huge, ramshackle edifice of not-entirely-matched music was set to mostly lame lyrics by the Broadway cheesemeister/wunderkind Stephen Schwarz - there's one good, striking line in it*, and that turns out to have been written by Paul Simon. It ranges between fascinating and annoying, has dated rather badly, and is very much a child of the late Sixties.

The whole thing was symptomatic of Bernstein's personality - he could do half a dozen musical things really well, and never could decide upon just one of them. He constantly bounced between composing, conducting, playing the piano, writing Broadway shows, teaching, and a career as a public figure and popularizer of music. As much as any single piece could be typical of him, it was probably Mass, just for its sheer breadth. And like prog and other children of the Sixties, it was more notable as a valiant attempt than as a perfected masterpiece.

*"Half of the people are stoned and half are waiting for the next election,
Half the people are drowned and half are swimming in the wrong direction....."

[rcarlberg]

Well stated. "Mass" is a mess.

[rcarlberg]

Bernstein is also a great character in Tom Wolfe's "Radical Chic."

[Fracktured]

Bernstein apparently thought his own high-water mark was Mass.[/I]

I didn't know this and am quite surprised by it also. The way you described Mass is exactly the way I feel about it. When I first heard it I saw a rendition of it on PBS I believe and was dumbfounded and confused in the end.

[Reid]

I purchased both versions of all three symphonies last year. I actually have three recordings of The Age Of Anxiety because I picked up the Original Jacket Collection which includes the original 1950 mono recording with Lukas Foss, as well as the stereo version with Philippe Entremont. The piece was revised for Entremont, who wanted more to play than what was written into the original score. Foss's later version is available in the Bernstein DG box set.

All fine works, but I suppose the text to Kaddish can be a bit cringeworthy. Nevertheless, I particularly enjoy the later recording on the DG label which features great sonics, and a fine monologist. His symphonic suite from On The Waterfront is also superb, as is the wonderful music he wrote for the ill fated Broadway show, Candide. West Side Story is better known, but I'll take Candide.

[JKL2000]

All I can say is, I met Bernstein once and he was wearing a cape (circa late '70s). 'nuff said.

[rickawakeman]

My chorus will be performing his Chichester Psalms in June.

[Reid]

^^^
That should be exciting! I have a cousin eleven years my senior who was a great vocalist in her day. She actually got to work with Bernstein on the Chichester Psalms when he was rehearsing in the late 70s. This must have been for his rerecording on the DG label, or for a live performance.

[Lieto]

Bernstein apparently thought his own high-water mark was Mass. Which, I think, says something about him. Mass could almost be described as prog done by an older classical composer - it was an odd combination of formal classical music, Broadway show tunes, Bacharach-like pop music, attempts at folk music, attempts at rock, attempts at jazz, attempts at R&B, and pure chaos. All held together, or sort-of held together, by the typical Bernstein use, re-use, transformation, and re-transformation of multiple themes and motives. That huge, ramshackle edifice of not-entirely-matched music was set to mostly lame lyrics by the Broadway cheesemeister/wunderkind Stephen Schwarz - there's one good, striking line in it*, and that turns out to have been written by Paul Simon. It ranges between fascinating and annoying, has dated rather badly, and is very much a child of the late Sixties.
[/I]

it seems I am in the minority, but I love Mass and all its seeming craziness. A great questioning faith kind of story and I find beauty in all the chaos and the rock mixed with tape samples mixed with other things. Plus, A Simple Song is a serious contender for most beautiful song ever.

I haven not heard it in years, but I remember really liking Kaddish. I need to hear that again. I have lots of resepct for Bernstein the composer. He was an unreal conductor and interpreter, but criminally underrated as a composer outside of Broadway and Opera IMO. You can't go wrong, however, with great works such as West Side Story and Candide!

[cavgator]

High water mark for me are the symphonic dances from West Side Story, Fancy Free, and the dances from On The Town. Plus all those great recordings of Copland et al.

This. I much preferred his interpretations of Copland and select others. His work with Glenn Gould was superb. As for his stuff, all I can think of is "Grandma Moses."

[Fracktured]

I knew full well starting this thread that there would be more discussion of his other music rather than the symphonies.

[Reid]

To me these were the high water mark of his composing career and I don't think he ever got the acclaim he should have for them.

Acclaim may be forthcoming from future generations after the remembrance of his charismatic personality and many other talents have been forgotten.

Mahler didn't receive much acclaim for his symphonies during his lifetime, and now he's considered a towering figure in the symphonic tradition. Like Bernstein, he was a famous conductor during his lifetime.

What recordings are you listening to? The Columbia, or the DG? I'm gonna re-listen to the DG recordings this weekend.

[Fracktured]

I love the DG recordings myself. Maybe only because they were the first ones I heard.

[Reid]

Bernstein speaking about the inspiration for Jeremiah.