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Thread: Trevor Rabin improved Yes!

  1. #51
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Great, great song. Wish they had him doing more of that kinda stuff in Yes.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  2. #52
    His live CD is stunning! His extended soloing on the song 'Cant Look Away' is one of the greatest i've heard!

  3. #53
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    To me, Rabin is a solid but rather generic guitarist. Little he does as a guitarist stands out to me, tone-wise or playing-wise. But that doesn’t mean he’s bad by any means.

    I personally don’t like his writing at all. I don’t even like his movie soundtracks. I guess 90125 is an OK pop rock album with some “artsy” touches. But to me, it is a pimple on the butt of what Yes was doing in the 70s. Like others, I consider the two periods really different bands, united only by the financial reality of wanting “Yes” plastered on the cover to increase sales of 90125. I also agree about BG and Talk being diminishing returns. To me, the “YesWest” band said pretty much all they had to say on 90125. But those are just my opinions, mileage varies.

    I think Howe was really inventive in the 70s, and brought something really unique and totally singular to rock guitar in that period. After the 70s, he has become almost as generic to me as Rabin. Sometimes you can still tell it’s him, but his tone usually sounds like it came out of a pre-set on a digital processor, and his playing and writing is largely uninteresting, with a few exceptions here and there. Again, YMMV.

    Bill

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ProgPariah77 View Post
    I think that guy's name was John Lennon or some such. One look at her *ahem* interactive artwork, and he was all like, "Yoko O-YES!," am I right ... ?

    ...
    I think you got that wrong. It was Yoko's art. I think it may have been the same piece that caught John's attention. The piece was one where there was a ladder in the gallery. You would climb to the top of the ladder, pick up a magnifying glass and look at a piece of paper that was on the ceiling. The paper had the word "yes." John was pleasantly surprised to see something so simple and positive that it struck him. I could be mistaken, but I think it was the same thing that inspired Yes. Although, I may be mixing up two stories.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  5. #55
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I think you got that wrong. It was Yoko's art. I think it may have been the same piece that caught John's attention. The piece was one where there was a ladder in the gallery. You would climb to the top of the ladder, pick up a magnifying glass and look at a piece of paper that was on the ceiling. The paper had the word "yes." John was pleasantly surprised to see something so simple and positive that it struck him. I could be mistaken, but I think it was the same thing that inspired Yes. Although, I may be mixing up two stories.
    Those whacky nutty hippies .....gotta' love 'em

  6. #56
    Member jarmsuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    ....and this changes nothing in what i said "Best", "Quality", etc are still all subjective terms....There are people that like 80s/Rabin-era Yes that dont care for their 70s music, even if they are a minority (my sister is one)
    You should take the time to educate your sister, she don't know what she's missing...

  7. #57
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    So,was it an earlier tour when they played together and Howe got upset with Rabin - Or did I just imagine that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    They played together only on Union tour. I don't know about upset part. Howe can be quite grumby but that I think is normal.
    Oh, he was upset indeed. He felt Trevor was overplaying and adding guitar to spaces that Steve had intentionally 'left blank'. I believe "Yours Is No Disgrace" was a major trouble spot. He goes on at some length about it on the Classic Artists DVD, although some seventeen years later, so he describes it in a calm manner. What's interesting too is that a bit later on that same DVD, when discussing the Talk album, Steve seems to almost sympathize a bit with Trevor when describing how he had to shoulder the burden of making that album when someone in the band (*cough*Chris*cough*) was 'unavailable' a lot of the time.
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  8. #58
    Monotheistic Supernalist ProgPariah77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I think you got that wrong. It was Yoko's art. I think it may have been the same piece that caught John's attention. The piece was one where there was a ladder in the gallery. You would climb to the top of the ladder, pick up a magnifying glass and look at a piece of paper that was on the ceiling. The paper had the word "yes." John was pleasantly surprised to see something so simple and positive that it struck him. I could be mistaken, but I think it was the same thing that inspired Yes. Although, I may be mixing up two stories.
    Another account has him meeting her at an exhibit of her art (perhaps the same one as where the "yes" piece was displayed), and being intrigued by her "Hammer a Nail" piece ... and still another has Lennon donating his handwritten lyrics to "The Word" for a book ("Notations") that she was helping John Cage put together.

    Neither of those is as interesting to me as the "yes" story ... but even if it's the true account, I have no idea whether that incident was the actual inspiration for Peter Banks' notion to name the band "Yes!" ...

  9. #59
    The hammer and nail part is from the same exhibit. I've heard the interview a few times and am pretty sure it was the ladder piece that moved John so much. I recall him noting how refreshingly positive it was.

    In fact, I think there was also an apple on a pedestal (or something) at the same exhibit. Everyone was invited to take a bite from it.

    But, I've digressed a bit too far already.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  10. #60
    On one hand, I've always felt bad for Rabin. He was the frontman of Cinema - his band, his songs. Anderson comes along and suddenly he's in the background. Worse, it's Yes and he's not Steve Howe. On the other hand, I don't think there is any way that a Cinema album would have been as successful as the Yes album, 90125. It was a better business decision.

  11. #61
    Well, this has all been a bit predictable, hasn't it?

    For a long time I've found it absurd that so many classic Yes fans blame Rabin for why they dislike YesWest, as if it was his fault. In fact, Rabin is the only reason those YesWest albums are any good at all. Moreover, far from diminishing returns, the best tracks they made - by far the best musically and also coincidentally the 'proggiest' - were "Final eyes" (on 'Big Generator'), "Miracle of life" (on 'Union') and "Endless Dream" (on 'Talk', for me that line-up's best album by far). Whereas some of the tracks on '90125' are amongst the poorest stuff that line-up did. So, no, I don't subscribe to the argument of diminishing returns.

    Mind you, all of the really worst music ever issued under the Yes brand happens to have Steve Howe playing, or almost playing, on it.

    What all this really means is that whether music made by Yes is any good or not doesn't really depend on who is in the band ;-)

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Dodie View Post
    Well, this has all been a bit predictable, hasn't it?

    For a long time I've found it absurd that so many classic Yes fans blame Rabin for why they dislike YesWest, as if it was his fault. In fact, Rabin is the only reason those YesWest albums are any good at all. Moreover, far from diminishing returns, the best tracks they made - by far the best musically and also coincidentally the 'proggiest' - were "Final eyes" (on 'Big Generator'), "Miracle of life" (on 'Union') and "Endless Dream" (on 'Talk', for me that line-up's best album by far). Whereas some of the tracks on '90125' are amongst the poorest stuff that line-up did. So, no, I don't subscribe to the argument of diminishing returns.

    Mind you, all of the really worst music ever issued under the Yes brand happens to have Steve Howe playing, or almost playing, on it.

    What all this really means is that whether music made by Yes is any good or not doesn't really depend on who is in the band ;-)
    ^^^^^^^Absolutely

  13. #63
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    On one hand, I've always felt bad for Rabin. He was the frontman of Cinema - his band, his songs. Anderson comes along and suddenly he's in the background. Worse, it's Yes and he's not Steve Howe.
    Yeah, this is always how I felt, too. And he's pretty much said that he was never interested in "being in Yes" and all of the baggage that came with it.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  14. #64
    (aka timmybass69) timmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Yeah, this is always how I felt, too. And he's pretty much said that he was never interested in "being in Yes" and all of the baggage that came with it.
    yeeaaaahhhhhhhh but he sure got a lot of mileage (and moolah) out of it. i doubt he would admit to not doing it again if given second chance. i get the feeling he is a very shrewd businessman and was probably 'open' to the idea when it was presented to the band by [chris/brian lane/whomever cooked it up].

    I'm very grateful he was a part of Cinema/Yes .

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Yeah, this is always how I felt, too. And he's pretty much said that he was never interested in "being in Yes" and all of the baggage that came with it.
    Sounds hypocritical to me if that's indeed what he said. He's currently involved in a project with Anderson & Wakeman which if it ever tours will no doubt include a significant amount of Yes material!!!!
    Last edited by Rufus; 01-17-2014 at 01:51 PM.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    On one hand, I've always felt bad for Rabin. He was the frontman of Cinema - his band, his songs. Anderson comes along and suddenly he's in the background. Worse, it's Yes and he's not Steve Howe. On the other hand, I don't think there is any way that a Cinema album would have been as successful as the Yes album, 90125. It was a better business decision.
    The demo album 90124 of those songs clearly evidence that Jon & Trevor Horn enhanced them. The choruses where kinda weak or none existent until Jon & Trevor got hold of them!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodie View Post
    Whereas some of the tracks on '90125' are amongst the poorest stuff that line-up did. So, no, I don't subscribe to the argument of diminishing returns.
    Well I don't agree. You can flag up the handful of 'good' tracks ('I'm Running' is one I'd add, 'Lift Me Up' too) but I can flag up 'Almost Like Love', 'Holy Lamb', 'Big Generator', any number of songs on 'Union', 'State Of Play', 'Where Would We Be' and 'Walls'. These are all worse than anything on '90125' as far as I'm concerned ('City Of Love' isn't my favourite though). And I never blamed Rabin for this.
    Last edited by JJ88; 01-17-2014 at 02:05 PM.

  18. #68
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Well I don't agree. You can flag up the handful of 'good' tracks but I can flag up 'Almost Like Love', 'Holy Lamb', 'Big Generator', any number of songs on 'Union', 'State Of Play', 'Where Would We Be' and 'Walls'. These are all worse than anything on '90125' as far as I'm concerned ('City Of Love' isn't my favourite though). And I never blamed Rabin for this.
    Agreed (except that I really like "State of Play")
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  19. #69
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    ^It has one of my own personal pet-hates, that 'pitch bend' thing. So I'm blind to the quality of the song!

    I think most of their albums after '90125' have had a hodge-podge quality to them, even though some have strong moments.

  20. #70
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Ha! That's what I like about it!
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  21. #71
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodie View Post
    For a long time I've found it absurd that so many classic Yes fans blame Rabin for why they dislike YesWest, as if it was his fault. In fact, Rabin is the only reason those YesWest albums are any good at all.
    Very well said, and I completely agree.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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  22. #72
    (aka timmybass69) timmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    The demo album 90124 of those songs clearly evidence that Jon & Trevor Horn enhanced them. The choruses where kinda weak or none existent until Jon & Trevor got hold of them!
    How do you figure? the 90124 tracks are basically Trevor's home demos of the material that occurred long before the band rehearsals or the proper recording of the songs. He could have changed them numerous times not to mention any contributions or input that Chris, Alan, and Tony may have provided before the band entered the studio with Horn.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by timmy View Post
    How do you figure? the 90124 tracks are basically Trevor's home demos of the material that occurred long before the band rehearsals or the proper recording of the songs. He could have changed them numerous times not to mention any contributions or input that Chris, Alan, and Tony may have provided before the band entered the studio with Horn.
    There are past interviews with TR & JA that clearly allude that Jon's input was prediminantly on the choruses! That to me is also clear from listening to the demos & final product!

  24. #74
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    There are past interviews with TR & JA that clearly allude that Jon's input was prediminantly on the choruses! That to me is also clear from listening to the demos & final product!
    and he whined and complained while making his hefty royalty bank deposits

  25. #75
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    There are quite a few changes (no pun) from Trevor's demos to the finished product on 90125* but it's pretty clear who the main songwriter was. What I found most interesting about those demos was that the song "Hold On" was actually assembled from two separate songs. The chorus was from Trevor's own song called "Hold On" (although slightly altered) but the verses and main melody came from one called "Moving In".

    I do wonder though who came up with the opening keyboard and resulting theme of "Changes", since Trevor's demo just began with the intro verse. Does anyone else recognize a similar theme in this old commercial btw? :



    * - 90125 was originally to be called 90104. This has been a true Progatron FunFact!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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