Open Discussion on Genesis B Sides: Feeding the Fire and On the Shoreline

[bill g]

You Might Recall would probably make my Top 10 list of favorite Genesis songs, ever. I could listen to it a billion times and never tire of it.

Yeah, love the layers, and Phil's voice is really good in this one.

[Tangram]

Hmm, dunno - I think "The Brazilian" is one of the few bright spots on 'Invisible Touch'.

However, I disagree strongly that Pink Floyd's 'Division Bell' has the same problem - far from it. It's a very good album - much better than 'We Can't Dance' in terms of consistency and flow.

The Brazilian is probably my fav track from that album. I don't slag IT like most except for Anything She Does.

I wasn't comparing The Division Bell to We Can't Dance. It is a better album, no doubt. My problem with TDB is there is a sameness on many of the tracks. Mid tempo, message, wait for guitar solo, rinse repeat. I like all of the tracks. There could be a little more variety in the album. Sometimes I will program it and remove 2 or 3 of them. Not always the same tracks either. Works for me.

[Tangram]

Yeah, love the layers, and Phil's voice is really good in this one.

Fully agree. Big fan of all the 4 side tracks on the original Three Sides Live. That's why when the remastered cd came out with a live 4th side, I had to keep both sets. Thanks Genesis, you got me again.

[2ndsout]

Fully agree. Big fan of all the 4 side tracks on the original Three Sides Live. That's why when the remastered cd came out with a live 4th side, I had to keep both sets. Thanks Genesis, you got me again.

Keep in mind that the original UK pressing of Three Sides Live was, what is now the U.S. and Rest of World release that took place with the 1994 Remasters Series. The UK Three Sides Live was the all sides live set, as the 3 X 3 EP had the studio tracks released specifically in the UK market.

[J. D. Mack]

"Submarine" never did much for me. When I hear it, I'm convinced that it's backing tracks for a song that was never finished.

[3RDegree_Robert]

Agreed. Two of their best b-sides-perhaps both better than a track or two that made the album.

[2ndsout]

Agreed. Two of their best b-sides-perhaps both better than a track or two that made the album.

Nice. Not to go off topic in my own thread- but Robert: I have played some 3RDegree on my show before, you guys have some really good stuff out there. The first track I heard from the band was "It Works"... nice stuff.

[Kim Olesen]

Love both tracks. Nothing more to say really.

[zorknapp]

Feeding The Fire would certainly have made Invisible Touch a better album too, although I like 'Do The Neurotic' far and away more than anything else from that period, as I find it quite brilliant. I guess both of those songs were Tony's, or at least mostly Tony's, which I think is why they didn't end up on the album, not being 'group compositions' like they insisted on doing, to their detriment.

Just to be clear, Feeding the Fire and Do the Neurotic were written just like all the other tracks for IT, from group improv/jamming. After Abacab, there was no real solo compositions on Genesis albums.

Banks did do the lyrics for Feeding the Fire.

Although, for accuracy, Phil does say in interviews that he brought the chorus in for In Too Deep, as something he had been working on.

Mike

[2ndsout]

Just to be clear, Feeding the Fire and Do the Neurotic were written just like all the other tracks for IT, from group improv/jamming. After Abacab, there was no real solo compositions on Genesis albums.

Banks did do the lyrics for Feeding the Fire.

Although, for accuracy, Phil does say in interviews that he brought the chorus in for In Too Deep, as something he had been working on.

Mike

I beg to differ but Domino was all Tony, and Mike wrote Land of Confusion, at least from a lyrical standpoint. IT itself and some of the other tracks were intended to be a length long side suite of the album but then morphed into the different tracks on the album.

[Progatron]

I beg to differ but Domino was all Tony, and Mike wrote Land of Confusion, at least from a lyrical standpoint. IT itself and some of the other tracks were intended to be a length long side suite of the album but then morphed into the different tracks on the album.

I think he was talking musically. The songs all came from going into the sessions with a clean slate. Lyrics came afterwards (as was almost always the case), and were broken up thusly:

Invisible Touch, Tonight Tonight Tonight, In Too Deep, I'd Rather Be You - Phil
Domino, Anything She Does, Feeding The Fire - Tony
Land Of Confusion, Throwing It All Away - Mike

[zorknapp]

I think he was talking musically. The songs all came from going into the sessions with a clean slate. Lyrics came afterwards (as was almost always the case), and were broken up thusly:

Invisible Touch, Tonight Tonight Tonight, In Too Deep, I'd Rather Be You - Phil
Domino, Anything She Does, Feeding The Fire - Tony
Land Of Confusion, Throwing It All Away - Mike

You are correct. It sounded like some people were talking about the music being written by one person, when it most definitely was not.

This is also the first I've ever heard of there being a side long suite on Invisible Touch. I'd like to know the source for that. I know that the riff for Invisible Touch itself was generated while jamming on Domino, but it created the birth of a new song, not that there was an intention to keep the riff in Domino.

Mike

[2ndsout]

You are correct. It sounded like some people were talking about the music being written by one person, when it most definitely was not.

This is also the first I've ever heard of there being a side long suite on Invisible Touch. I'd like to know the source for that. I know that the riff for Invisible Touch itself was generated while jamming on Domino, but it created the birth of a new song, not that there was an intention to keep the riff in Domino.

Mike

During numerous interviews when Invisible Touch was released- Tony had mentioned that when he wrote Domino, that in some parts of the original work of the Domino piece itself, had included the music workings for the track Invisible Touch- but then the track itself became a standalone piece.

[3RDegree_Robert]

Nice. Not to go off topic in my own thread- but Robert: I have played some 3RDegree on my show before, you guys have some really good stuff out there. The first track I heard from the band was "It Works"... nice stuff.

Thanks Bryan! I assume you had access to the 2012 followup THE LONG DIVISION too? We're knee deep in recording album #5 for 10T Records. Probably will come out in very early 2015. We just re-released our 2nd album from 1996 remastered last month. Let me know if you need that for the show.

[LeFrog]

I think he was talking musically. The songs all came from going into the sessions with a clean slate. Lyrics came afterwards (as was almost always the case), and were broken up thusly:

Invisible Touch, Tonight Tonight Tonight, In Too Deep, I'd Rather Be You - Phil
Domino, Anything She Does, Feeding The Fire - Tony
Land Of Confusion, Throwing It All Away - Mike

Although the music was indeed written as a group, each of them would write lyrics to the songs they felt most strongly about. It's likely that each of them would want to write lyrics to the songs for which they had more input. You can hear a strong Tony influence in the music of Domino or Feeding the Fire, and both Land of Confusion and Throwing It All Away are based around a guitar riff from Mike.
So in many cases, the lyric writer had the strongest influence on the music as well.

[Big Ears]

Both tracks are on Genesis Archive No 2 1976-1992 (CD1). The archives are worth getting as there were so many non-album tracks, EPs, remixes and live tracks (imo).

[3RDegree_Robert]

I actually stuck all the b-sides from every album at the end of all of the albums they came from when transferring to my iPod/iPhone. These two songs no exception.

[Progatron]

^^ I did the same thing, except I slotted them in to the places on the album where I personally felt they fit best. The only exception was the one I simply can't tolerate: Me And Virgil.

[Big Ears]

I actually stuck all the b-sides from every album at the end of all of the albums they came from when transferring to my iPod/iPhone. These two songs no exception.

That's a good idea. The record companies should have done the same.

[zorknapp]

The discussion about music, and where it comes from, is always interesting to me. The improvisational, jamming nature that the trio Genesis (from the Mama album) onwards came up with all of their material makes us, as fans, want to know who wrote which bits. But having been in a band myself, if I hadn't heard the drummer playing that one bit, then I wouldn't have played my bass part in reaction to it, and the guitarist wouldn't have played his riff to add to the mix.

So, yes, there are keyboard dominated songs in Genesis, and guitar dominated ones, but it's hard to tease out what led the way. I think personally that yes, Tony Banks is known for, as Phil says in one of the interviews on the reissues, having *hundreds* of ideas. But, would what he have played be different because of the drum machine that Mike or Phil programmed, or the lyric that Phil was working on in the vocal microphone?

That, for me, is where the magic of latter day period Genesis comes from, so saying (for me) that one song was more dominated by Tony, or Mike, or Phil, just doesn't really make sense.

With all that being said, yes, the lyrics were generally written by one person, sometimes incorporating Phil's improv vocals, sometimes not.

Mike

[Big Ears]

When discussing his relative lack of solo success, in a BBC radio interview, Banks said the other members of Genesis were the strawberries and he was the cream.

[TheH]

The Dodo Suite as it might have been

[Progatron]

^^^ You know, in all these years I don't think I've ever listened to it that way, that was really cool! They fit together beautifully.

[3RDegree_Robert]

^^ I did the same thing, except I slotted them in to the places on the album where I personally felt they fit best. The only exception was the one I simply can't tolerate: Me And Virgil.

Even Genesis hate that song right? They left it off one of the reissues.

[JJ88]

Yes, I've seen Phil criticise '...Virgil' on his web-chats from some years back. It was left off the 2nd Archive box...as was 'Match Of The Day'. The latter was a poor exclusion, I don't mind it at all. Not good enough to be on any of the albums by any means, but it does have a likeably upbeat charm.

They also didn't bother to include any of the CAS-era B-sides. I haven't heard those but not being a lover of the album it never bothered me too much.