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Thread: Canterbury binge 2013-2014

  1. #26
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    A couple I don't see mentioned yet, I really find National Health's 'Missing Pieces' to be superb as well. So many great pieces of music on that one, and 'Clocks and Clouds' really stands out for me among the finest pieces of music around. Phil Miller's 'Cutting Both Ways' is another gem, (featuring Dave Stewart on 2 tracks).
    Clocks and Clouds and the whole of Missing Pieces is excellent.
    Ian

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  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    A couple I don't see mentioned yet, I really find National Health's 'Missing Pieces' to be superb as well. So many great pieces of music on that one, and 'Clocks and Clouds' really stands out for me among the finest pieces of music around. Phil Miller's 'Cutting Both Ways' is another gem, (featuring Dave Stewart on 2 tracks).
    Love Figures of Speech

  3. #28
    chalkpie
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    Ruth+Is+Stranger+Than+Richard+robertwyatt1.jpg

    Doing this now. Love it. The melody on "Solar Flares" is wild - I love how he is singing along.

  4. #29
    chalkpie
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    The Muddy Mouse "variations".....wow. So great.

  5. #30
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    I'm IN.
    Quote Originally Posted by philsunset View Post
    Sounds good. I'm in.
    Yeah, just in case this goes to PM land

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I always thought the Canterbury connection in regard to HCow more or less came about due to Cutler's onetime coop with Dave Stewart in the Ottawa C. and the relation between the band and Robert Wyatt. Although there's the obvious Softs (as well as Zappa/Mothers and Faust) impulse in some early Cow, they stood out pretty much as a unique animal in British progressive rock music to me.

    Comus, like Spirogya (who certainly had ties to the place itself and of course had a Northette in their rank), never struck me as anything "Catnerbury-sounding", although I really like both of them.

    I suspect this alleged connection also to stem from Oldfield's input with Kevin Ayers' solo career and thus be more about personal relations than musical ones (even though some of Ayers' stuff most definitely brings on the "Canterburian" feel, most definitely Shooting at the Moon).
    It always seemed obvious for me that if Wyatt's End of An Ear (and to a lesser extent Hopper's 1984)had not been recorded, HC would've been an entirely different beast, if even existed at all on record

    And for Comus, Spiro and VieuxChamps (old field in french) I find that they can be filled at best on Canterbury alumni annex files, none of them having any Kentish soundscapes.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    It always seemed obvious for me that if Wyatt's End of An Ear (and to a lesser extent Hopper's 1984)had not been recorded, HC would've been an entirely different beast, if even existed at all on record.
    Can you elaborate on this ? I'm not sure I see exactly what you mean. The kind of experimentation Wyatt and Hopper did on these albums surely informed some of the studio and live experiments Henry Cow did, but that's leaving out the whole composition aspect, which isn't exactly the strong point of "End of an Ear" in particular. As far as personal taste is concerned, when I think of Henry Cow, I think of some favourite pieces of theirs, like "Nirvana For Mice", "Amygdala", "Half Asleep Half Awake", "...Heart Of The Beast", etc. The influence of those two records on these I can't really see - so if you or others can argue otherwise, I'm all ears (or rather, all eyes).
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  7. #32
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Can you elaborate on this ? I'm not sure I see exactly what you mean. The kind of experimentation Wyatt and Hopper did on these albums surely informed some of the studio and live experiments Henry Cow did, but that's leaving out the whole composition aspect, which isn't exactly the strong point of "End of an Ear" in particular. As far as personal taste is concerned, when I think of Henry Cow, I think of some favourite pieces of theirs, like "Nirvana For Mice", "Amygdala", "Half Asleep Half Awake", "...Heart Of The Beast", etc. The influence of those two records on these I can't really see - so if you or others can argue otherwise, I'm all ears (or rather, all eyes).
    OK, first, I must say that this is a very personal view, and Im not sure musicians would agree with me. So I guess that limits or relativates the "obvious" part.

    When I speak of the influence, it's mostly on Leg End/Legend... Because to my ears, it's the only HC album to really sound Canterbury-esque... So, in your list of personal faves, only Amygdalia and For Mice would be concerned.... despite Heart Of The Beast (from In Praise) sounding more of a Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard vibe. I'm sure that HC listened to Wyatt's EOAE quite a bit before elaborating Legend.
    I'd say that the inspirational nature of EOAE (and 1984) on HC is more in the free/improvisational side rather than profound songwriting similarity. Indeed, EOAE is not what I would call a tight songwriting album, but from memory, neither is Legend (neither is Unrest for that matter)...
    I'd have to check or revisit HC's LE again , because it's been years since I last heard it. I still don't own the original three HC albums (yes, I know , shame on me ... I've always relied on my library system/médiathèque)


    hpefully, you'll find some clue to what I meant, though it will most likely fail to fully satisfy you.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    EOAE is not what I would call a tight songwriting album, but from memory, neither is Legend (neither is Unrest for that matter)...
    I'd have to check or revisit HC's LE again , because it's been years since I last heard it.
    I'd actually urge you to re-visit both albums, really (a good idea if you want to base such a radical "theory" on them !).

    To call "End of an Ear" "not a tight songwriting album" is kind of an understatement - there are almost no themes per se (the Gil Evans cover comes closest to anything resembling a "composition", followed by "Instant Pussy", under whatever other title it's credited), everyone basically freely improvising over repetitive patterns with post-production tricks (speeded-up voices etc.) added later.

    "Leg End", on the other hand, is for the most part quite composed. "Amygdala" is through-composed, as are the theme for "Nirvana", the "Citizen King" song, much of "Teenbeat" etc. It's probably the densest Cow album along with "Western Culture".
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  9. #34
    On a more serious note - does anybody have any idea why the character below seems so ubiquitous every year's end ? I seem to see his face everywhere these days...

    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  10. #35
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    WOW, what a shot of RW!

    BTW, are we discussing only 'true' Canterbury bands, or Canterbury sounding bands here?
    Steve F.

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    www.cuneiformrecords.com

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  11. #36
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    No need to relisten to EOAE, I did about 40 days ago...

    I'll most likely buy Legend ASAP, though... I've meant to do so, for a while but I still hesitate between the original or the remixed version...
    but I can't find the remixed available for now, anyway >> Can't remember which one is to get (the debate's been held at least once on PE 2.0), though.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  12. #37
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    The one to get is the original mix, imo.

    And I own both.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    "Leg End", on the other hand, is for the most part quite composed. "Amygdala" is through-composed, as are the theme for "Nirvana", the "Citizen King" song, much of "Teenbeat" etc. It's probably the densest Cow album along with "Western Culture".
    I'd go so far as to say that "Amygdala" was arguably THE most through-composed "rock" tune up to that point (early '73) next to some of Zappa's work and parts of the second Magma album. The charts to this piece are astounding when considering that HCow actually viewed themselves as a "rock'n'roll group" (ref. Frith ). I remember having a handful of associates (nerdos) over for drinks sometime in the mid-90s and presenting this with "Amygdala" some three times in a row; now these guys were GGiant and Return To Forever- and Zappa-fans, yet they could hardly believe the textural layers of finesse in that one composition.

    I still think "Half Asleep; Half Awake" sounds more organic (and indeed features some of their finest playing altogether, the drumming in particular) and that "Ruins" was the paradigmatic turning point in establishing the uniquely formal approach to composition that they developed, but yes, in terms of sheer intricacy Leg End is possibly one of the most daring debuts ever from a progressive band.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #39
    chalkpie
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    Today's spinach:

    cover_3523122272009.jpg
    cover_2926222112010.jpg
    cover_651112872012_r.jpg

    The Matching Mole is just killer. The segues are perfect, and the improvs stellar. RW is a madman on the traps, and I love how the bass drum is captured - a big deep boomy thud. Sad thing is most folks think the Allmans and The Dead were the schiznet when it comes to improvisation, but most have never heard this band, or even KC for that matter. I am almost through the Ayers - that thing is all over the map like most of his solo stuff that I have heard.

  15. #40
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    WOW, what a shot of RW!

    BTW, are we discussing only 'true' Canterbury bands, or Canterbury sounding bands here?
    You can discuss anything as long as it gets past the mods , but on these particular annual excursions, I am strictly a true conservative and only listen to the "real" Canterbury albums, whatever that means. I guess only UK based bands, and somehow related to the infamous city in Kent. I skip Moving Gelatine Plates, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Supersister, etc.

    Canterbury for me is not so much a style per se (as evidenced by the incredibly wide stylistic range), but more a chunk of amazing bands and albums by folks who had connections to the place, or musical relationships with people from the place. There is a lot if individuality in this music, not that all different from Zappa for instance, where the personalities gave the music "eyebrows", if you will. You can't have your Canterbury without Robert Wyatt, Richard Sinclair, Pip, etc. but you can without the dudes in Picchio dal Pozzo and the like. It gets into a grey fuzzy Prog and prog thing a bit I guess. Or I am talking out me arse.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I skip Moving Gelatine Plates, Picchio Dal Pozzo, Supersister, etc.
    I tend to agree, although I love all three of those you mentioned. There's the concept of the "Canterbury sound" of course, but although I'd say SSisters, PdP, MGP, Solution and so on certainly alluded to that sound, I kinda never thought of them as harbingers of "Canterbury" as such. I'd rather think of them as influenced by given Canterbury artists.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  17. #42
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    User by Goetz Steeger ?


  18. #43
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    well, right now because it is cold ("Winter Wine" "...or will it snow") and it's the season and in memory of Richard Coughlan, I am currently hugely enjoying "In The Land Of Grey and Pink"
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  19. #44
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    I just listened to a couple live National Health gigs yesterday - 76 with Bruford and a 77 show. It blows me away that they could pull off those songs live. Dave Stewart is probably my favorite keyboardist/composer ever. Everything he touched from Egg to National Health is like a superb wine to me. Plus... his write-up in the National Health Complete cd set is priceless gold. Titanium!

  20. #45
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    The one to get is the original mix, imo.

    And I own both.
    +1 for sure. Love that original mix a lot.

  21. #46
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    I am currently enjoying the new Caravan Album - Paradise Filter.

  22. #47
    Any of you have an idea why there is such a minor following of the Canterbury aesthetic by younger bands when compared to other avant progressive streams

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Clocks and Clouds and the whole of Missing Pieces is excellent.
    One word for me on why i love (most of) Missing Pieces so much: Bruuuuuuuford!!!! His drumming is so exact, so perfect, but always tasteful, on Paracelsus And Agrippa, etc.
    "Wouldn't it be odd, if there really was a God, and he looked down on Earth and saw what we've done to her?" -- Adrian Belew ('Men In Helicopters')

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Any of you have an idea why there is such a minor following of the Canterbury aesthetic by younger bands when compared to other avant progressive streams
    There were a handful of truly amazing ones, however; Priam, D.F.A., Radio Piece III, Ut Gret, French TV, Ampledeed, Amoeba Split, Thieves' Kitchen (well, some of it), Homunculus Res, Las Orejas y la Lengua, MediaBanda...
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Any of you have an idea why there is such a minor following of the Canterbury aesthetic by younger bands when compared to other avant progressive streams
    Maybe because of the jazz element in the music???

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