"Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
"I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
"I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973
When I think of Rock 'n Roll, I always think of Hall & Oates, Linda Ronstadt and Cat Stevens.
Personally, I can't wait until 2037 when Miley Cyrus gets inducted.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Jan Wenner has nothing to do with it any more. Yes didn't get in because not enough fans or music industry people wanted them there.
Wow, Kiss and Hall and Oats???? Does just *anybody* get in now? What were the odds on Hall and Oats 10 years ago before they were adopted by the hipsters? 10,000-1? Kiss got in because they had a mega-huge audience in the late '70s and those kids are now old enough to be affecting the R&RHOF voting process. There are nostalgia for millions upon millions of people. Not quite so much for Yes.
The final fan balloting-
http://www.rockhall.com/get-involved/interact/poll/
Kiss, Nirvana, Deep Purple, Yes; all received more than 10% of the vote. Ronstadt (6.13) and Cat (Who I love, 5.37).
This whole thread belongs in WOT combined with the new joke thread. Very funny material.
"Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
"I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
"I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973
If the UK had their own "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame", then Yes would probably be in there by now. I think the one in Cleveland is very American in the sense that it's very much like the opinions of Rolling Stone Magazine as opposed to Melody Maker or New Music Express or other UK-based mags. Rolling Stone Magazine definitely had a massive bias against progressive music after 1974 or even sooner, whereas people like Chris Welch for Melody Maker remained supportive. I'm not sure how Genesis snuck in there, but Rush makes a bit more sense as it's not TOO prog and plenty of ROCK for a Rolling Stone audience. But eventually, Yes probably will get in, they'll simply run out of classic bands! Count me in with the people that say it doesn't matter worth a bean. It actually makes Yes that much cooler that they're NOT in there along with ELP and others. These are bands that often went far beyond being "Rock and Roll" which is what we're all here for anyway, right?
I know that they sold a lot of albums, but that's not the criteria for getting in. I mean, it's a factor, but there are numerous bands that sold a lot of albums that aren't there, who have been eligible for a long time.
I'm of the opinion that very few artists fall into the "no doubt they belong" camp (Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Who, Kinks, Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin - that level of thing).
Disappointing, though not surprising, given the RRHOF's previous track record.
For me, three of the incoming class of six are not really surprises. Nirvana was a shoo-in, Kiss had a large and vocal fan base pushing for their inclusion, and Linda Ronstadt has sold so many records that her royalty checks are probably larger than the Gross Domestic Product of many third-world countries. But I thought that Deep Purple had a good shot, given that many past inductees had carped about their absence from the HOF. As for Hall and Oates and Cat Stevens: I never saw it coming.
I'm happy for Peter Gabriel, though; his eighties work alone merits this sort of recognition.
You do realize that Robert Fripp worked with Darryl Hall back in the 70s right? Hall sang vocals on Fripp's "Exposure" and Fripp produced "Sacred Songs" by Hall. Sacred Songs was to be a Fripp Trilogy of albums which included Sacred Songs, Exposure, and Peter Gabriel's "Scratch" album.
Much of Hall and Oates first couple of albums had a more progressive rock sound to them then their later 70s/early 80s stuff.
They also had minor success with "Family Man" in 1983, which was originally written and recorded in 1982 by Mike Oldfield.
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The only real problem I have with this list is Linda Ronstadt. Seems every year the RRHOF muddies its own criteria for induction and further confuses the issue of why whomever does or doesn't get inducted. Sure, she was a great vocal talent... of other peoples' work. Yeah, a lot of artists have done covers but most of them put their own signature on a cover as well as writing their own material. There was nothing original about Ronstadt. I can't think of a Ronstadt hit that wasn't a straight-up cover. She cherry-picked her way through genre after genre aping styles rather than putting a distinctive spin of her own to a well known song. She obviously was heavily influenced by a lot of different artists and styles (or you could say she was very calculating) but influential? The induction of Madonna made more sense.
I'm sure lots of people would say YES deserves to be in the RRHOF, even the powers that be, but then you start peeling back the layers of what a logistical nightmare that is going to be - what members will represent the band? The original line-up? In 40 years of recording, how many albums featured the same line-up? Is everybody who was ever in Yes going to be inducted or just the longest standing members? What line-up had the most influence? Had the biggest impact on the brand? Your average music fan just doesn't care about all the in-fighting and revolving door membership issues. It just smacks of effort. Sure, Kiss has had its share of revolving members, but the make-up is the same and picking four guys to induct is easy compared to the who what when of YES.
Compact Disk brought high fidelity to the masses and audiophiles will never forgive it for that
The R&RHOF hasn't been very conservative on the definition of "rock," right from the very start, so I find it odd that people keep using the definition for why somebody should not be there. The early inductees ('86-'89) were significantly of doo-wop, soul, blues and girl-group pedigree, which should have made it obvious that there was not any intention right from the beginning of being very strict on the "rock and roll" aspect of things.
I really think that people blow this HOF thing way out of proportion. Unlike in sports, it doesn't mean *anything* to be in the music HOF. It's one small step of legitimacy over a grammy, which we already know means absolutely nothing. It's a museum (and, IMO, a pretty good one!) but the induction process is kind of a joke and probably always will be, despite recent reforms to the process like the fan balloting. There is no R&R governing body (thank god!) so any city anywhere in the world willing to dedicate the resources can create their own competing R&R HOF and have the same kind of thing going on. And if they did a better job, then perhaps someday that would be considered the *real* R&RHOF.
Me, I just think that industry awards given for artistic endeavors like music are fundamentally silly, which is why I can never get upset at all that many of my favorite bands are not yet in the R&R HOF (and may never be) and why I did not really care at all that bands like Rush and Genesis did eventually get in. It is what it is... which is not really very much. People going nuts about this band or another not getting in and making petitions... they're really out in left field, IMO.
I'm aware of all of this - and I *really* fail to understand how associations with Robert Fripp, Mike Oldfield, and progressive rock in general are being used bolster a R&R HOF case, since none of these people are inducted and the Hall doesn't much care for progressive rock.
She was a pretty fine interpretive singer, and clearly not a songwriter. Her hits really fell into two categories: Custom-written songs by the Los Angeles singer/songwriter crew (Zevon, Karla Bonoff etc), and modernized versions of vintage rock & roll (Holly, Berry, etc). At the time she was about the only one doing the latter.
Personally I think "Different Drum" and "How Do I Make You" were great enough to put her in. But the fact that she's sick and just retired is probably more relevant.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
I agree with almost all of your post, Facelift. But in my opinion, blues, doo-wop, Soul and don't forget Motown would absolutely fit in with the RRHOF definition of "rock and roll", especially pertaining to the early days, whereas the European-based, classically influenced progressive rock does not (even though a fair bit of Motown also has a classical influence)
But, as you say with prog "they're really out in left field" which is no bad place to be, I'm sure we'd agree.
But, as I said, I think many of the biggest selling prog bands will eventually find their way in just because they (the organizers) will run out of bands that they really wanted to get in. I'm surprised Kiss is only getting in now actually...
Wow
That's a good point. Post Nirvana, who is there really among newer bands who would get in over the next several years? Seriously. There are many good bands out there, but few with the commercial and artistic impact that the arena bands of the 1970s and 1980s had. And I really can't imagine the likes of Creed or Linkin Park ever getting in. So I would expect more and more of the older bands getting in. Of course, Yes may be too old to care by the time they do...
Elite...
Not to sound like an asshole, but who gives a shit? What does it really mean anyway? Does earning this "privilege" somehow make the music more meaningful or deeper on some subconscious level?
The whole thing reeks of cheese to me. It seems to be based on popularity, which is a terrible gauge of truly artistic and important music.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
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