Bruford - Gradually Going Tornado

[Zeuhlmate]

Either end of august can only be a fretless, you cant slide 'unnoticed' on a fretted. )

Well, I listened to this track again with a friend who is a musician, and this 'close inspection' revealed that Berlin isn't doing his glissando completely unnoticed after all. Its a fretted bass, he is just extremely good at it. So I eat my words.

But his words about all fretless bassplayers sound like Jaco is quite a generalisation. Listen to Alphonso Johnson, Percy Jones, Mick Karn, Hansford Rowe, Francis Moze or Jack Bruce - not much sign of Jaco there. I would say that a fretted Jeff Berlin sounds more like Jaco, than a fretless Ralph Amstrong does.

[Phlakaton]

I stumbled onto this lecture from Malmo by Bill on youtube. Good stuff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJd59a47ewY

[taliesin]

Well, I listened to this track again with a friend who is a musician, and this 'close inspection' revealed that Berlin isn't doing his glissando completely unnoticed after all. Its a fretted bass, he is just extremely good at it. So I eat my words.

But his words about all fretless bassplayers sound like Jaco is quite a generalisation. Listen to Alphonso Johnson, Percy Jones, Mick Karn, Hansford Rowe, Francis Moze or Jack Bruce - not much sign of Jaco there. I would say that a fretted Jeff Berlin sounds more like Jaco, than a fretless Ralph Amstrong does.

I would guess that he knows that there are some players who created their own voice on the instrument - but out of everyone that plays fretless the vast majority have been heavily influenced by Jaco.

I believe that Berlin also said in an interview I read many years ago (possibly in Bass Player magazine) that he avoided listening to Jaco and playing fretless because he felt that he'd be very influenced and he wanted to create his own voice on the instrument.

[syncopatico]

Interestingly this isn't what Bruford or Stewart claimed at the time:

DS (Contemporary Keyboard 1/80) : "We didn't use any vocals on the first album [he means "One Of A Kind", the first Bruford band album] because we were too busy establishing the sound of the group and working out how to play together as an instrumental quartet, and there were so many ideas on that level that to do songs would have restricted it somewhat."

He does go on to add : "Obviously it made it difficult for us in terms of radio airplay. People always go for the vocal. We all like singing, but we wanted to go at it in stages. We're a multi-album band".

Now that i think about it, i might have been confused here (wouldn't be the first time !!) It was Brand X's Product album where the record company/band management specifically demanded that the record had some vocal tracks on it in order to generate (hopefully) more sales, which led to the two band versions of Brand X which appear on the album, and John Goodsall and Phil Collins coming up with the two more *accessible* songs with vocals: Don't Make Waves and Soho in an attempt to be more more "commercial".

In regards to Gradually Going Tornado, i don't want to pin the blame on the record company (E.G.) for 'forcing' the band to make songs with vocals. That might have been entirely the band's idea: so the 'blame' there (could easily) fall solely on the two main writers (Bruford/Stewart). What else could explain the abomination of a song such as 'Age Of Information' !?!

I have the Bruford vinyl 45 Hell's Bells EP (E.G.E.P.1) which i bought for the cool cover back in the 80's (not so much the contents which are available on the records) with Hell's Bells and the edited live version of Five G on one side, and Age Of Information on the other side. So obviously they were trying to achieve more sales (and maybe some radio airplay?) with a wretched 'simplistic' music/lyrics (for these guys anyway! song like Age Of Information...

[Phlakaton]

Age of Information an abomination? Ouch. I kinda dig that song and the keyboard riffs.

[calyx]

In regards to Gradually Going Tornado, i don't want to pin the blame on the record company (E.G.) for 'forcing' the band to make songs with vocals.

Whatever Bruford and Stewart said while promoting this record should be taken with the usual grain of salt. That they weren't against songs in principle doesn't mean there wasn't pressure from EG to get radio play, which is also implied in Stewart's words. I have an almost identical passage from a Steve Howe interview around the time of "Tormato", where he begins by saying how great it is to condense in 4 minutes what they'd previously expressed in 20 (the "politically correct" thing to say in 1978 if you wanted to continue a career in rock), then goes on to complain at how radio stations won't play anything outside the pop format. There were *both* commercial pressure from record companies *and* peer pressure on musicians to dispense with the aspects of their music that were too outside the pop canon, including lack of vocals and long instrumental sections.

[MJBrady]

Always welcome a Bruford the band topic, funny, this album has a polarizing effect on people, and it seems to be based on expectations maybe?? Feels Good and One Of A... were different in that Feels has vocals, and One of A doesn't, yet both feature the same band line up, GGT brings in a new guitarist with the unenviable task of replacing a legend, and does a nice job. But they seemed to limit his presence some, in favor of the bass and keys, which is fine by me, all three have a similar vibe, yet are incrementally different tasting. I still love to sit through all of them with some regularity. They had that UK(first album) vibe, and that really wasn't captured by too many other artists, maybe David Sancious' - Just as I thought comes close. But really, the vocals by Berlin are not so bad really, the overall work on the album is quite good. The groove on "The Sliding Floor" always hits me the right way.

[Dave (in MA)]

The groove on "The Sliding Floor" always hits me the right way.

I thought Berlin sounded like he was trying to go for a Joe Williams thing on that tune.

[gallen1964]

Love the quote about Howe and Tormato. Lots of similar in early Asia interviews, really egging on the 20 mins down to 4 strap line. As said very much politically correct in the early 80s and perhaps the only way to pay the mortgage!

[progman1975]

Just to reiterate, "The Sliding Floor" kicks major ass

[Galactic Bulldozer]

Jeff should have been on Discipline... and the following...

[nosebone]

RE- Jeff Berlin, The bassist I play with took lessons with Jeff in the 80s and he claims fretless was never used on his recordings.

[progholio]

I remember when I first heard Joe Frazier I was completely knocked out which in turn I bought the album. Digging into it back in the pre internet 80's I would have sworn that was Holdsworth preforming under a pseudonym.
It's been so long since I've listened to it I forgot about the vocals, so I guess they neither offended or bowled me over.

Speaking of vocals, I think I might have a Jeff Berlin solo album (Pump It?) that had vocals, even though Buddy Miles sang it couldn't be saved.

I recently read an interview with Berlin saying he was inches away from filling the Bass chair for Van Halen, he should of taken that job, the vocals in that band are a way better 'imo'.