Caravan --Their Once and Future Success

[Reach]

RIP to Richard Coughlin. Godspeed...

I always thought that Caravan should have enjoyed the same success/status in Europe as The Grateful Dead enjoyed in North America-- because of the striking similarity of: good songs, long jams, psychedelia, fun/humour/charm, surprising dancability, mythos/tapping into their native scene, and counter-culture caché with regularity. To me, they could have/should have been the first great 'jam-band' of Europe, commanding a loyal mobile following ready for new adventures in keeping with the ethos of the time. It's a mystery to me why Britain never fully embraced and solidified them as a large, steady cult act, again, like the Dead have been in America. Is that comparison legitimate? If not, why not?

In any event, long live one of the great Canterbury bands...

[Scrotum Scissor]

I always thought that Caravan should have enjoyed the same success/status in Europe as The Grateful Dead enjoyed in North America [...] To me, they could have/should have been the first great 'jam-band' of Europe, commanding a loyal mobile following ready for new adventures in keeping with the ethos of the time. It's a mystery to me why Britain never fully embraced and solidified them as a large, steady cult act, again, like the Dead have been in America. Is that comparison legitimate? If not, why not?

To some degree, Britain did make significant cult names out of artists who shared much more with the Dead than Caravan ever did (although I luv them): Hawkwind and Man especially. Both foistered from the same underground ethos of the UK that the Dead and Quicksilver did in the States, and both were astoundingly great at what they were great at. But overall, yeah - Caravan should have been bigger. They had a name in the Benelux and to some extent in France, but not that much in their native lands. Although there *were* a couple of charting albums on their resumee - as with Man.

[JKL2000]

As Scrotum Scissor makes clear, it seems like there's a "tribal" nature needed for a band reach that kind of critical mass, or close to it. But it's an interesting question: perhaps Caravan should have been able to rise to the level of a Jethro Tull in the UK. Maybe a charismatic front man/vocalist or lead musician is what was lacking? As great as Caravan always was, they were right in with a load of other great bands that were around the same level of popularity/success.

[Scrotum Scissor]

As great as Caravan always was, they were right in with a load of other great bands that were around the same level of popularity/success.

They were also a namechecked influence with dozens of other progressive rock acts even back then, in the UK notably with Camel and Steve Hillage and lots of more second-tier bands like Jonesy, Fruupp and Fantasy et al. Their influence in the Benelux could be heard with Solution, Supersister, Sweet Smoke, Banzai and, almost to the point of being amusing, with Alquin.

[Scrotum Scissor]

BTW, I just discovered that Sweet Smoke's semi-classic Just a Poke (full album) has some near-900,000 hits on YT. Now THAT'a a jam band for you, although they weren't really European other than being located here for years.

[JJ88]

Yes, I never got why they never sold as many records as their peers. They made some in-roads in the mid 70s with 'Cunning Stunts' and 'Blind Dog...' but that's all.

I think the 'humbleness' may provide the reason...most of the big-selling prog bands had a spectacular element, whether it be from the frontman or the stage show. From what I see Caravan had neither. But the music was always tuneful, approachable and likeable.

[calyx]

I always thought that Caravan should have enjoyed the same success/status in Europe as The Grateful Dead enjoyed in North America-- because of the striking similarity of: good songs, long jams, psychedelia, fun/humour/charm, surprising dancability, mythos/tapping into their native scene, and counter-culture caché with regularity. To me, they could have/should have been the first great 'jam-band' of Europe, commanding a loyal mobile following ready for new adventures in keeping with the ethos of the time. It's a mystery to me why Britain never fully embraced and solidified them as a large, steady cult act, again, like the Dead have been in America. Is that comparison legitimate? If not, why not?

Your description fits the early era of the band - esp. the 2nd LP and some of the longer tracks on the next couple of albums. I'd say "The Love In Your Eye" was the last extended song of this nature. Caravan, of course, kept this and other such pieces, esp. "For Richard", in their repertoire, but from "Girls Who Grow Plump..." onwards, their *albums* of new material were more rock-oriented and succinct. While their concerts retained the element of "jam-band-ness" because they still played the aforementioned earlier songs, their albums became increasingly pop-oriented. Well, maybe this could be said also of the Dead's albums towards the late 1970s and 1980s (I don't know their stuff as well as I do Caravan's), but in any case they had a larger body of "jam-band" type material to draw from in their live performances and justify their status as a pioneering "jam-band". Caravan only had a few, and increasingly this side of their music became less representative of their overall style. And anyway, by ca. 1980 they no longer played any of those extended, 10-plus-minute pieces (although they returned to them later), so people attending their shows with the hope of hearing long jamming sections were bound to be disappointed. Thankfully, Hastings & co later came to realise that a large portion of their audience were into Caravan because of this type of material, and always performed at least one of those songs ("Nine Feet Underground" and "For Richard" mainly).

[Trane]

I always thought that Caravan should have enjoyed the same success/status in Europe as The Grateful Dead enjoyed in North America-- because of the striking similarity of: good songs, long jams, psychedelia, fun/humour/charm, surprising dancability, mythos/tapping into their native scene, and counter-culture caché with regularity. To me, they could have/should have been the first great 'jam-band' of Europe, commanding a loyal mobile following ready for new adventures in keeping with the ethos of the time. It's a mystery to me why Britain never fully embraced and solidified them as a large, steady cult act, again, like the Dead have been in America. Is that comparison legitimate? If not, why not?
.

MMMmhhhh... there are many other bands than The Dead that I'd liken to Caravan first, before making that association...

Yes, they had a certain selection of long numbers/pieces that could be stretched a little, but this was hardly as systematic as it was for GD.

In that regard, I'd tend to liken (and link) Caravan more to Zep than GD or early-70's Purple

[bRETT]

In that regard, I'd tend to liken (and link) Caravan more to Zep than GD or early-70's Purple

I'd link them more to the Beatles, since great melodies and a classic British pop sense link all their albums together, whether the pieces are short or long.

[Trane]

I'd link them more to the Beatles, since great melodies and a classic British pop sense link all their albums together, whether the pieces are short or long.

I meant about being on stage doing extended versions of their songs...

[bRETT]

I meant about being on stage doing extended versions of their songs...

True, in terms of playing their longer songs they're more like Purple or Zep. One difference I'd say is that the bandmembers who recorded the songs never seemed to vary their live extended solos that much. The pieces only really changed because different soloists would come into the band.

[PROGMONSTER]

They were close to the best thing going around in 1971. Pye seemed to have too much control after this which may have forced Richard Sinclair from the band. Without Richard the band were only half as good on plump. But to pyes credit he improved a lot as a composer. Blind dog, stunts and album are mainly strong releases IMO.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Without Richard the band were only half as good on plump.

I personally think Plump is their best release along with ItLoG&P and the debut. And Richard joined Hatfield, delivering two of my fave records of all time. I also think John G. Perry became a very good asset for Caravan, before making his wonderful Sunset Wading solo album.

[calyx]

They were close to the best thing going around in 1971. Pye seemed to have too much control after this which may have forced Richard Sinclair from the band..

I think the reason for the 1972 split was more in the nature of musical disagreements. "Waterloo Lily" was a split album, with a Sinclair/Miller-dominated A side and a Hastings-dominated B side, the first verged on jazz-rock fusion while the second remained an element of progressive pop. It was pretty clear they were moving in different directions, Sinclair towards the jazz-oriented prog of Hatfield, and Hastings towards a rockier, de-jazzified Caravan.

There was also the fact that Sinclair was less prolific than Hastings as a songwriter; "Land Of Grey & Pink" being the exception, with Hastings contributing only one song, Sinclair 3 and Dave Sinclair the sidelong "9 Feet". The first two albums were largely Pye's (with "For Richard" the notable exception), a situation which was repeated with "For Girls..." and again with "Blind Dog...", whenever there wasn't a Sinclair around to share the songwriting ("For Girls..." was written before Dave Sinclair had rejoined in '73).